You arent getting Lindholm for Poitras alone, and if thats all you're willing to give up it isnt happening, even more so because you want retention.

An injured, struggling Ryan O'Reilly got a 1st, 2nd and 4th last year, even with a trade list of 1 team Philly got Owen Tippett and a 1st from FLA for Giroux, what makes you think CGY even thinks about that offer.

You're probably not wrong however, Poitras is almost exactly projected to be like Lindholm so you get a younger version building towards the future. I am happy to not do anything at the deadline and keep Poitras to be honest. That Athletic proposal was just insane. I wouldn't trade Frederic alone for Lindholm.

You're right some sucker will pay more for Lindholm. But fortunately for Pens fans, the Pens aren't likely be buyers so Dubas won't be emptying the prospect cupboards.
These TDL deals very, very rarely make a big difference and rarely even make a difference at all in the buyers fortunes for that season

Sharks Decline. With another year on his contract, there's no immediate reason to trade Sturm for that return.

Yeah, Im not sure what the Pens will do/can do. Dubas cant sit still and let a year pass with the key players all of a certain age, but his biggest trade pieces (Guentzel, picks, prospects) are probably not what he should be looking at.

Yes, the acquisition of Giroux (who played over a ppg pace for FLA looked good to begin with but got them no further in the playoffs), and while TOR finally made a very meak showing into the 2nd round with ROR (and McCabe, Acciari and Schenn) the price of those acquisitions certainly limits them over the next 3 drafts. Really its a tough call, it comes down to pressure (and certainly for Keefe AND Dubas in TOR they had to do something.

And based on the core age of PIT, they might have to as well.

Add a 1st to Poitras and you are probably at what the value should be for an Elias trade.

Thinking Grizz gets a 2nd while Sturm goes for nothing is a perfect microcosm of how fans over value their own players while not being willing to pay fair value for other teams players. Both teams decline.

It must have been really frustrating being an amateur scout for the Leafs during the Dubas era, knowing that the draft picks would be traded.
One reason I think the trading draft picks is so bad value, is you can select NHLers, you can young NHLers for under 1m. Teams that don't have as many picks (and successful picks) have go into the veteran UFA market and sign guys for 1m...usually for one year, and the cycle starts all over again the following summer

Great quote, I think you just summed up Dubas and Treliving. (And as a side note, Leafs did part with their scouting staff last year I think, based on the limited chances of success the scouts had, and mgmt's continued choices to trade picks.

Yes, Poitras MIGHT become a Lindholm, but all prospects and young guys have projections. A 1st (which is likely very late in the round) and Poitras is probably close to what it takes, and between NYR, COL, BOS as frontrunners and other teams, CGY will get a top prospect/young guy and a 1st.

It really depends on how badly BOS wants this year (especially after flaming out last year). And I guess the key to their need is a RE-SIGNED Lindholm. A re-signed Lindholm makes the loss of a late 1st and Poitras (with the Center position in BOS likely sorted for another 3 yrs: Lindholm, Coyle, Geekie, Zacha) not so bad.

You LOL’d at the athletic proposal then came on here and did an equal worse one? A 19 year old NHL center for a 30 year old low end 1C probably better fit for a 2C role. who wants 9mil. Get out of town brother

I disagree with your assessment of Lindholm’s and Poitras’s value. His contract demands make him worth a #1 and #2 as a rental. Your suggestion of value is still a significant overpay by the Bruins.

The open issue is the obvious one. The Bruins have three prospects that are worth way more than a 2nd round pick if they keep them in Poitras, Lysell, and Lohrei. Even if you stretch out Lindholm’s value, it isn’t getting to the point where those players are close to a late 2nd round pick in value.

You can choose to argue that if you’d like, but I look at this upcoming draft and I take any of those three vs players you can get at #20. The Bruins next prospect isn’t likely worth a second round pick in terms of traditional measures. I’d probably say that is Farinacci, but others will point to Merkulov.

Ultimately, thats not Calgary’s problem. Boston would have to make up the value somehow between their first and second. I’d suggest it would be with multiple prospects as opposed to one of the top 3 prospects if it were going to happen.

Just like it isn’t Boston’s problem that they need to incorporate the opportunity cost of foregone free agency if they make a trade in the value equation and that likely gives them reason to depress their offer. The reality is if Hanifan hits FA, there is every reason in the world for a marriage there and the likelihood he gets there is pretty high at this point. He can change his mind, but Boston with a lot of FA money to offer is going to be a destination for a good FA if they are patient. That is a consideration in any trade, which is why I think they should sit out the major trade unless they decide they must secure Hanifan.

It’s why I think Lindholm ends up in Winnipeg if they offer Lucius and a first. They can’t attract top tier free agents unless there is a tie there, so cap space is less relevant to them and they have a deeper system to supplement their first.

I am happy to read all your comments. I'd just as likely not make a single trade if I were Sweeney. The Bruins have preformed better than anyone expected with our so called average roster. You guys keep Lindholm, etc. Sweeney can just as easily approach him a UFA. Key word being Free.

Go look at “rentals” of his caliber and what they go for.

Most recent was Giroux. 1st/Tippet/conditional pick. Horvat, very similar player - 1st/Raty/Beauvilier

🤷🏻‍♂️

I did not say i’d make the trade. I would not. But his value is late 1st and high end young player.

Market always dictates but i don’t see it taking anything less.

The Giroux deal is why teams should hold out with the hope that one GM overpays. Tampa did get a couple of decent prospects in that deal that didn’t pan out including a former first rounder, but flame outs get taken out of the deal quickly.

Tippett is the reason you don’t trade a Lysell. Top 6 talents are usually not part of these deals unless they’ve disappointed. He was undervalued in the trade. Lysell’s bounce back year has been impressive as is the way he’s been playing since the call out by Mouganel. Hes arguably been Providence’s best player since that moment.

I don’t believe any GM would value Raty over Lysell, Lohrei, or Poitras based on what they’d shown at the pro level. Raty is intriguing, but he’s been thoroughly outplayed by Merkulov in the AHL with a similar skill set. The open issue is he’s younger than Merkulov, so he has more value than him and that is where the problem lies. To be honest, I probably would rather have Farinacci vs Raty, but that isn’t the consensus

Boston needs to offer a level of prospect that they simply don’t have to supplement the deal and thus the discussion goes to players that have more value than the supplement needed. It creates a trade imbalance that I don’t think can be overcome without them paying more than he’s worth or tossing multiple prospects with a lower pick to even the value. From my perspective, both sides could barter to try and get something to work there

Another scenario is Boston trades Grz/Ullmark to NJ and uses that return to secure Hanifin. It keeps the focus on defensive structure, but frees up salary long term and makes Swayman the #1. It also prevents them from having to undervalue their top 3 or depend on Calgary scouts actual perception on them. If I’m a betting person, I doubt that happens

Yes but you are arguing purely off Bostons perspective and semantics. Neither have anything to do with my comment. 🤷🏻‍♂️

From Bs perspective I would not even consider it. Cost outweighs value.

Semantics - I don’t think any team should ever give up long term assets for rentals. Ever. Unless you extend them it’s pointless.

However my comment was purely based on what it would cost to get Elias. Poitras alone as stated above is not it. Late 1st/Poitras is the kind of package they would accept.

I hope if Bs do pursue they don’t do anything more than 1st/Merk but that’s another argument.

To be blunt, I don’t trade for Lindholm because I don’t think it is possible to get to the right value / need / cap balance. If the rumors of him wanting seven years is right, I’m passing and waiting til FA or trying to acquire Hertl next offseason when space is available.

The answer to Poitras, Lysell, or Lohrei and a #1 should be an immediate no. Any combination of two other prospects and that #1 is something I’d consider for Hanifan. Lohrei could be available for Hanifin, but they’d have to find the right prospect/pick swap OR Boston just waits until July 1st and takes their chances.

That Lindholm trade is short about a 1st and 3rd round pick.

Contrary to Calgary fans hopes, Boston’s GM is pretty good and won’t even remotely contemplate a deal if that’s the price

Bruins should avoid giving up assets for Lindholm, just not worth the cost (which would be more than just Poitras alone)

Griz does not fetch a 2nd, maybe a mid round pick

SJ has no reaosn to move Sturm, so probably costs more than Steen + 4th, but I dont mind him as a target

Just don’t be surprised if by this time next month Debrusk has not signed the rumors of a Debrusk/Elias trade start circulating.

Sure. I don’t really pay much attention to rumors all that much. We throw out concepts, but most rumors are incomplete. We assume things, but hey … if Lindholm is willing to sign a 6 year, $48M: I have a different perspective on him

How many journalists predicted we would trade for Orlov/Hathaway/Bertuzzi?

And bear in mind, PHilly got that return when Giroux waived his NTC to ONLY FLORIDA. There wasn't a bidding war, there weren;t other offers, PHI got what was seen as a meh return at that point.

Given that Giroux deal, the ROR deal, and the fact that BOS did the Orlov/Hathaway/Bertuzzi moves last year, it would be foolish to think they dont try and make a move or two this year. Maybe its not Poitras, but the going price for Lindholm is going to be a good package (high prospect and high pick) as he is head and shoulders above anything else on the market.

I have no doubt that Lindholm is going to secure a first and likely a second with retention. The open issue is Cap Friendly discussions discuss relative value and it leads to contentious discussions.

There are three open issues

1. Sweeney appears to value players he has in the system over draft picks.

2. There appears to be a pretty large drop off between our top 3 prospects and our 4th prospect. I do think 4 through 10 are a group of potential NHL players, but they kind of lack the higher ceiling guys outside the top 3.

3. Boston doesn’t have picks, because they paid on a credit card last year

None of this is Calgary’s problem, but it is a reason why a deal between the two teams seems unrealistic.

I’d be surprised if Boston trades Poitras, Lysell, or Lohrei if they aren’t valued as a #1 pick. There are examples of players traded who can be comparables where they are “better”, but I can look at the end of the first round and see several players last year that aren’t nearly as valuable and last years draft is better than this one.

Also, I think people are not paying attention to the level that Boston is playing at. From my perspective, the emergence of Coyle, Frederic, and Zacha is one of the reasons that Boston is first in the league when everyone was going chicken little about the center position. I believe they need to consider potential extensions for Frederic and Zacha in the long term salary picture.

I respect Lindholm, but his age / years expected on next contract is not a positive. His likely contract diminishes instead of enhances his value,

On a side note, I want to see us sign Wotherspoon to a 3 year extension around a million AAV to prevent him from leaving as a Group 6 FA. He’s been very good

As much as I agree with you, they did look even more awesome last year and went crazy at the deadline, so its very much in the realm of possibility AND if they get a Lindholm with a resign in place, the loss of maybe a Poitras isn;t too bad as they have coyle/zacha/lindholm for 3 plus years at Center and Geekie for 2.

Not saying I woul,dn;'t do it, but if sweeney thought they needed so much last year, I cant see him staying silent this year

Under no circumstance am I saying Poitras is untouchable. All I’m saying is Poitras would likely be valued much in the same manner as the Ottawa pick would be in last year’s Chychrun deal.

Under no circumstance, would I give up two number 1s for a soon to be 30 year old pending FA who is asking for a long term contract and you can’t convince me that they couldn’t get a top 15 pick if they made Poitras available for trade at the draft.