Haha, how many Canuck fans are in the comments putting those trades on blast? Too many.

Insults because you are making things up. You have not provided the source where Friedman says Hawks are willing to pay a lot for Kuz and yet we have all read the same thing and provided the source where HE didn't say that. You are literally making up stories....link the article where he said something differently than everyone else saw....burden of proof is on you pal

What are you talking about? I've provided quotes directly from Friedman in this thread. Others have linked the YouTube video. I don't know what more proof you would want.

Sounds like Vancouver may just be sending Kuzmenko for Lindholm directly lol.

Much better deal for everyone involved include the Hawks

Now you understand what Kuz is worth. For a rental for a few months, they paid Kuz, a 1st and two prospects. In other words, Kuz was never worth a 1st or more as you suggested here and what everyone was telling you

What do you mean? This is directly comparable to the O'Reilly trades last year (both recent Selke nominees having down years). Plus Lindholm was the best centre available this year in a very limited market.

O'Reilly for a 1st (25th), 2nd, 3rd, b-tier prospect (Abramov), d-tier prospect (Gaudette) - I'm not including Minnesota for the other retention.

Lindholm for a 1st (27th+ as of trade), b-tier prospect (Brz), d-tier prospect (Jurmo), 4th, and Kuzmenko

B-tier/D-tier prospects cancel each other out.

The difference between 25th OA and 27th+ OA is a 3rd-round pick. So that essentially becomes a 2nd + 3rd + 3rd as equal value to Kuzmenko + 4th

Reference the Canes-Kings trade of 2021 or the Canes-Wild trade of 2020, we can see a 3rd + 4th = late 2nd, so two 3rds (minus the 4th) would be about a mid-2nd, Flip the two 2nds for a 1st. Heck, even a 2nd + 3rd can equal a 1st (See CBJ-TOR 2015).

Kuzmenko is worth a 1st. I'll concede that it may have been a slight overpay from Chicago, but again, the Hawks were the ones reported to be keen on Kuz.

LMAO no, Kuz isn't worth a 1st.

Van gave up a 1st round draft pick. That is the most valuable asset in the trade. The prospects cancel each other out. So Kuz's value is a 2nd as many people said on this website.

You're skipping over the difference in the weight of the pick at the time of the trades and the 3rd round pick. Those are both big factors.

No, they aren't. The difference between the 25th and 27th pick overall is negligible. The 3rd round pick is something but not a ton because Vancouver struck quickly and well before the trade deadline thus not creating a bidding war and the only criticism by analysts was whether calgary should have held out longer to extract more value. Furthermore, you are also missing the attribute in this trade that Vancouver needed to move Kuz to make the cap work for Lindholm and thus, does not increase the value of Kuz but decreases his value. So at the very most, Kuz is considered worth a 2nd and 3rd in this trade....but never a 1st as you suggest and because of needing to move cap out, versus the O'Reilly trade, I would argue Kuz was only worth a 2nd in this trade.

Also of note, notice Chicago wasn't going to give up a 1st for Kuz, because if they were willing to Vancouver would have gone that route first and given them more valuable assets to work with in a trade to acquire Lindholm. Like we've all been saying, Chicago was never going to give up even a 2nd to take a risk on Kuz.

29+76 for 25th in 2018

29+70 for 26th in 2017

28+87 for 26th in 2016

Yeah, they are.

Because during the draft a team is trying to target a player but during the draft. Moving up 2 spots months before the draft is negligible.

Kuz is worth a 2nd as most people on here have said; not a 1st or a 1st + 2nd as you have suggested here. End of story

Okay, so you'd have no problem swapping the Chicago 1st for Columbus' 1st? No? So 2 spots months before the draft does matter.

The math of the trades certainly favours the point I'm making more than it does you. Kuzmenko was confirmed worth a 1st + given this trade.

There is a HUGE difference between the #1 and #3 pick. There is NOT a huge difference between the #25 and #27 especially months before the draft.

LMAO you are really struggling here trying to be dead right, and what is the first word in the phrase "dead right"? O'Reilly is the comparable as demonstrated by every analyst. He got ONE first round pick, Vancouver gave up ONE first round pick in this trade. How do you figure Kuz is worth a 1st+ than, MEANING that would be worth TWO first round picks and that's not the value. Kuz was worth a 2nd in this trade comparable to O'Reilly period...end of story

And kuzmenko was a cap dump

1st+2nd=1st+Bruz

the 3rd last year was for Acciari

4th+Jurmo=the 2 nothing prospects

Kuzmenko had 0 or negative value

We have direct comparisons at the time of both trades. We can see that Kuzmenko is worth a 2nd + 3rd + 3rd given what the Leafs gave up. A 2nd + 3rd + 3rd is equal to a 1st+



You're forgetting Abramov, the nothing prospect was for Acciari.

So it's a

25th > 27th+

Abramov = Brz

Jurmo = Gaudette

2nd + 3rd < Kuz

2nd + 3rd + 3rd = Kuz

Abramov was a former 2019 4th round pick turned into a mediocre AHLer. His worth is nothing except for the fact that the leafs needed to clear a contract slot (there’s a maximum of 50)

Gaudette another 26 year old AHLer contract slot.

These guys have 0 value. Probably both together for Jurmo sure but overall meaningless.

1st+Bruz=1st+2nd

3rd for Acciari.

meaningless never to be NHLers=meaningless never to be NHLers.

That leaves
4th+kizmenko=nothing

Cap dump. But keep jumping through hurdles of delusion.

Lmao by that logic of Abramov = nothing then Brzterwicz = nothing

C'mon if you want to have a conversation then let's have one, making up facts and assigning incorrect values to players you don't like or are on teams you're jealous of, like you're doing, shouldn't be part of that.

Edit: Oh wait, you're that guy who confused 5v5 with ES insisting they were the same data, and then said that xGF% doesn't matter for Kuzmenko when you'd just said it does in another post about Jack Hughes, of course, you're going to make up facts to prove your point.

Bruz: leading scorer in the OHL 1 year removed from his draft
Abramov: mediocre AHLer 4 years removed from his draft.

Delusional if you can’t tell the difference.

Abramov=Jurmo if you want to try and get real technical about it.

You mean when you couldn’t tell the difference between individual xGoals and on ice xGoals?

And then didn’t understand how adjusted stats vs unadjusted stats worked?

Still waiting for your explanation on how a team obtains half a shot on goal?

Bruzterwicz is not leading the OHL, he was, but he's fallen off in the last month.

Abramov was 21-years old and averaging a 0.5 P/GP in the AHL, Raty was 20-years old and averaging 0.5 P/GP in the AHL. Raty is a great prospect, Abramov was a great prospect.

My guy, you were the hypocrite saying that xGF% stat doesn't matter and then turning and using that exact stat to try and prove your point when debating a different person about Jack Hughes.

I understand how adjusted stats vs unadjusted stats work, you didn't realize that ES means Even Strength in all situations and 5v5 is the standard.

Look dude, it's clear you're new to the hockey fandom, which is great, I'm happy that you've found the sport. However, it's not great to use stats and details you only half understand from google searches and try to pass it off as your knowledge. It's okay to be wrong and admit you're wrong, but you need to be willing to admit it and grow from it to truly learn.

I imagine I said that overall xGF% metrics aren’t particularly reliable, because they are skewed by usage.
A guy with a ton of PP time will have inflated numbers, a guy who kills a bunch of penalties will have deflated numbers. And then, since you don’t actually understand what any of these stats mean, got confused when I later used Jack Hughes 5v5 xgoal% metrics. Regardless jacks metrics in those categories dwarf kuzmenkos

Dude. We were talking about 5v5 xGF. Powerplays don't impact 5v5 stats, I explained this to you already. Your convo about Jack Hughes was a different thread with someone else. You got confused because you don't know half of what you are talking about.

Ahh yes.

On ice xGF (because again you don’t know the difference)

I assume I pointed out that Since Kuzmenko is a sniper and not a play driver, he isn’t the reason those xGF are being generating. Same as toffoli on jacks wing. If you want to use those metrics in comparisons between Jack and Oetterson, go ahead. But again, that requires a nuanced understanding of what we’re talking about

With the number of times you've moved the goal posts you've gotta be across the parking lot by now.

" ̶x̶G̶F̶%̶ ̶d̶o̶e̶s̶n̶'̶t̶ ̶c̶o̶u̶n̶t̶"

This is you saying it does.

"̶O̶h̶ ̶i̶t̶ ̶w̶a̶s̶ ̶p̶o̶w̶e̶r̶p̶l̶a̶y̶!̶"

It's 5v5 xGF%

̶I̶t̶'̶s̶ ̶b̶e̶c̶a̶u̶s̶e̶ ̶h̶e̶'̶s̶ ̶a̶ ̶s̶n̶i̶p̶e̶r̶,̶ ̶n̶o̶t̶ ̶a̶ ̶p̶l̶a̶y̶ ̶d̶r̶i̶v̶e̶r̶!̶

And then we pointed out he was ahead in 1a/60 and you got all mad and called me delusional as you do when you lose a debate.


Really dude, you've mixed up multiple stats and brought the same standard arguments you always do because it's the same four stats that you think you kind of understand but don't.