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Apr 10, 2017
2nd Favourite Team
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<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Jdfitz77</b></div><div>You’re a division rival
No chance that gets Eichel</div></div> <div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>gaudetster</b></div><div>If that doesn't, what does. If you count KK and Ghule as First Round Picks, this trade is Eichel for 4 1st, 2 2nd's, and Drouin. Hard to ask for more than that imo. If this isn't enough what is? 8 first rounders?</div></div> <div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>sabres89</b></div><div>Suzuki. Start there.
I wouldnt get too caught up in the first rounders thing. We could offer you okposo, skinner, mittelstadt, ryan johnson, tage thompson, curtis lazar, rasmus ristolainen, and i believe brandon montour as well. So theres 8 firsts- wanna talk suzuki still? Thats 8 for 1, never get more first round players for suzuki than that.</div></div>
NHL Totals 132 19 31 50
NHL Totals 116 17 23 40
The top one is considered a center piece in a trade for Jack Eichle.
The bottom many consider a bust.
Kotkaniemi v Mittelstadt
I do not think these players will get Jack.
Hello my friend, it is nice to see you make a post.
I always enjoyed reading your comments as you were one of the few people who actually watch hockey with an understanding of why actions occur.
IMO you put together some good trades. Other than Ristolainen maybe more than market value of the players the Sabres are trading away.
I think Ristolainen would return a lot more than Neal and a late first, he has been the Sabres best player nearly every night this season (you had to notice him during the two caps games).
While I can see the Sabres tearing it down, it will not happen as Kim will not allow it.
Getting draft picks is the way to build a team, Buffalo just wastes their picks.
Jack Quinn over Rossi?
Nylander over Sergachev?
Reinhart over Draisaitl?
Dahlin over Svechnikov? (this may be the correct pick, but Dahlin looks terrible this year, you must have noticed that from the two games with Washington),
Now with the second worse coach the Sabres ever had (Ted Nolan wins that prize) I see no future for this team either.
Imagine 10 games into the season and Eichel, Hall and Skinner have a sum total of one 5 on 5 goal. Krueger makes players look bad, I have no idea why Hall wants to play for him.
I am a die hard Sabres fan but as long a Kim and Terry are running the show, this team is destined for disaster.
So sure trade for picks and blow up the team, they will be miss the playoffs again, and again, and again.
Let me add, I am still a season ticket holder as I enjoy watching hockey, but Kim and Terry have no clue.
First of all, nice line up.
I love the Kempný trade, he may be better than McCabe.
Raanta at that price is a steal. He had a horrible playoffs, but IMO even as a cap dump he is worth more than that.
As to the GM's
<strong>Murray </strong>was the worse:
Reinhart over Draisaitl and Nylander over Sergachev, need I say more about bad drafting
9th Mikhail Sergachev
10th Tyson Jost
11th Logan Brown
12th Michael McLeod
13th Jake Bean
14th Charlie McAvoy
15th Luke Kunin
16th Jakob Chychrun
McNaab and two seconds for Deslauriers and Fasching, two AHL forwards for a defenseman who is nearly always at the top of his teams +/- AND 2 seconds
Lehner and Legwand for a first. DATM KNEW Lehner had demons yet gave up a first for Ottawa's 3rd GK and took on a cap dump, when Talbot was traded for a late 2nd.
Josh Gorges for a second. He could hardly skate and we gave up a second?
Sure O'Reilly was a great trade, but did you listen to his last interview with Buffalo?
Did you ever listen to the entire interview?
<a href="https://thehockeywriters.com/sabres-oreilly-deserves-respect-not-accusations/" rel="nofollow noreferrer noopener" target="_blank">https://thehockeywriters.com/sabres-oreilly-deserves-respect-not-accusations/</a>
listen at 1:54, 3:00, 4:58 and 5:08 lost his love of the game. We were lucky to get a bucket of pucks after this interview.
Did you remember that STL was in last place until Binnington joined the Blues?
Did you ever read an analysis of the trade directly after the trade: <a href="https://nhl.nbcsports.com/2018/07/01/trade-blues-spend-big-to-get-ryan-oreilly-from-sabres/" rel="nofollow noreferrer noopener" target="_blank">https://nhl.nbcsports.com/2018/07/01/trade-blues-spend-big-to-get-ryan-oreilly-from-sabres/</a>
Only after the trade he had a "spark" <a href="https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/ryan-oreilly-trade-blues-spark-now/" rel="nofollow noreferrer noopener" target="_blank">https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/ryan-oreilly-trade-blues-spark-now/</a>
He said he lost his love of the game when the season started AND said he was more excited about playing in Europe than playing in Buffalo in the NHL. BTW where did Buffalo finish with O'Reilly, well enough to draft Dahlin!
I watched the Blues play during these recent playoffs, if O'Reilly played with that high of intensity the Sabres would never have traded him and the team would have made the play offs at least one of the years he was here.
Ristolainen for Hall, yes Chiarelli made this offer then got Adam Larsson instead.
Stewart for 2 seconds, yes Chiarelli made this offer then got Brett Connolly instead.
Moulson and Ehrhoff for first, Pearson, and Green, yes Lombardi made this offer then got Gaborik instead.
Miss handling the cap, instead of making trade to sell cap space he:
Moulson to a five year $5,000,000,
Gionta to a three year $4,250,000,
Meszaros to a one year$4,125,000
Nick Leddy 2014-Oct-04 Traded from Chicago Blackhawks with Kent Simpson to New York Islanders for Ville Pokka, Anders Nilsson and T.J. Brennan
NICK LEDDY my goodness for nothing!
<strong>Regier </strong>could not draft because all of his scouts were fired, sound familiar? What do you think the future will hold for Adams?
But Regier first built a team around Hasek, then a presidents cup team around Miller.
I think Pegula puts too much pressure on the the GM and they start making dumb trades.
<strong>Botterill </strong>inherited a last place team or did you forget this?
O'Reilly and company led us to Dahlin.
What do GM's do when a team is in last place two years running, they rebuild.
Look at the defense Botterill inherited:
2016-17 Buffalo Sabres:
34 Casey Nelson D 11 Rochester Americans
67 Brady Austin D 5 Kladno
45 Brendan Guhle D 3 San Diego Gulls
46 Erik BurgdoerferD 2 Hershey Bears
77 Dmitri Kulikov D 47 Winnipeg Jets
4 Josh Gorges D 66 Out of hockey
38 Taylor Fedun D 27 Texas Stars
41 Justin Falk D 52 Belleville Senators
47 Zach Bogosian D 56 Tampa Bay Lightning
6 Cody Franson D 68 Omsk Avangard
29 Jake McCabe D 76 Buffalo Sabres
55 Rasmus RistolainenD 79 Buffalo Sabres
BTW you mention Montour for a late first as a bad trade.
He played his off wing 65% of the time
Had the highest +/- among ALL skaters and only Scandella had a better PDO than he.
He was Ristolainen's pairing about 25% of the time and Ristolainen had the best +/- of his career.
Lastly, during the 20 games last year he led ALL defense in scoring and +/-
Lest not forget ONLY Ristolainen had more TOI/gm than he.
Botterill's biggest mistake was hiring Krueger.
Vesey, Miller, Montour, Hutton, Skinner, Okposo, Sheary, Rodrigues one third of the team ALL had career worse years playing for Krueger.
There you have my rant.
Probably too much to read.
<a href="/users/RoyalBlueSabres" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">@RoyalBlueSabres</a>
<a href="/users/Sabres923" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">@Sabres923</a>
<a href="/users/Sabresforlife" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">@Sabresforlife</a>
Yup the Sabres had a lot of bad luck last year.
If Hutton does not go blind and have a 0-8-4 stretch, they are on the heels of the Leafs for the 8th best in the east.
I think if their luck changes, and the young players (Mittelstadt, Thompson and Cousins) can perform, this team is in the hunt.
Let me add, Dahlin, Eichel, Ristolainen all improved dramatically last year, another jump ahead and maybe all three are all stars.
Two points that go against conventional wisdom on this site:
First, Krueger was not a good coach:
Sobotka on the second line?
Four players have career bad years, Vesey, Rodrigues, Skinner and Sheary.
PK and PP were terrible.
NHL players need a coach not a cheer leader. No one ever accused Bowman of being a cheerleader.
I am afraid we lost Pilut and Vesey will never think of returning because they were mishandled.
Few people on this site will agree with your line up EVER having a chance of making the playoffs.
That was Botterill's vision and we all know Botterill is a bad GM.
After all he traded away O'Reilly! I guess I am the only one who listened to O'Reilly's entire post season interview.
Botterill made several mistakes:
He should not have fired Housley.
The Scandella trade was terrible. The Frolik trade was worse.
While Johansson was a good addition, we also needed a Center (Reinhart?!) and RW (Rodrigues, Sheary, Thompson?)
While I liked his under the radar free agents (Lazar, Dea, Gilmour and Hammond) a mid 6 center or RW would have been good.
Who blinked last year, Botterill or Brisebois? JT Miller would have looked really nice on this team.
(An aside that is where luck has a lot to do with success. Brisebois wanted Ristolainen and would have paid for him, over the summer he got Shattenkirk for FREE)
He should have paid O'Reilly's bonus (oops, were his hands tied?)
As for the line up.
I think Olofsson needs Jack to get goals.
I think we should have had Sam at center last year instead of Johansson.
Casey and Tage are not busts.
I loved Girgensons and Larsson, but they have priced themselves out of the team.
Adding Miller and Jokiharju while having Montour for an entire season made this a good defense, not the coaching.
You are correct, this team is close, maybe a LHD, and 2nd line forward could be added.
I wonder if Larsson could jump up to #2 Center with Skinner. Did that work well last year?
That is my rant, I am sorry I high-jacked your post for my ravings.
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>LumberJacques</b></div><div>Look I am one of the biggest defenders of Domi's value on here but when a young player scores at the rate Olofsson did this season you shouldn't rush to trade him. You need to see more games before commiting to anything (same applies to Domi).
Chicago thought the same thing about Panarin; maybe he was a product of Kane and they didn't want to pay him too much. Turns out he was good on his own too. I'm not saying it'll happen with Olofsson but you need to see what he really is first, and so does MTL with Domi.</div></div>
I agree the Saad for Panarin trade looks really bad.
I am old cannot retain as much as younger people can, but could Bowman have thought that he could not resign Panarin and traded him?
Was Stan also looking for LW to balance the line up.
As I said, I do not completely know all of the facts.
Regardless, the trade looks really bad based on talent, but Saad is still a Black Hawk for another year while Panarin is a Ranger now.
As to Olofsson, he is a pure sniper.
You do know he tied an NHL record with 6 straight PP goals (shared with unforgettable players as The Winnipeg Jets' Craig Norwich (1979-80), Hartford Whalers' Sylvain Turgeon (1983-84) and New York Islanders' Jeff Norton (1987-88 to 1989-90))
As i said, if he will be a bit better than Domi, that is fine with me, as I need a center more than a LW. littlejerryseinfeld has a strange view of reality. Buffalo needs a center and could afford to move a LW to obtain one.
As to Domi, I agree, he may even have a higher ceiling than Olofsson.
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Shibbal18</b></div><div>Lehner was and is a fantastic goalie. Buffalo is such a pathetic city he turned alcoholic here. Botterill let him walk despite visibly being a good goalie. If Botterill invested in him instead of wishing him luck and sending him on his way, we may have locked him down long term for half the cap hit hes about to get. Pysyk is not that great, Pysyk stats are also skewed higher this year because he was playing forward, and the Sabres got Asplund in that deal as well. "Tyler Myers for Bogosian" C'mon thats the Evander Kane trade dont mask it by leaving that part out. Myers has also been a resounding disappointment unfortunately. "A third round pick to the Pittsburgh Penguins to be able to hire Dan Bylsma" Bylsma must have been a good coach if Murray was only bringing in scrubs as insinuated. I cant eve find the pick that we sent them. "A third went to the Nashville Predators to get the negotiation rights to Jimmy Vesey?" the Sabres had 3 3rd rounders, Nashville got 76 OA, Rem Pitlick, in fact their was nothing pick remotely close to 76 that I'd lose sleep over. Also nhltraderumors.me is not a reliable source and the guy was completely guessing in that evaluation. Murray wasnt good, I'm agreeing with some of those trades being bad, but theirs no reason to be unfair.</div></div>
I find it incredible that you are still defending Murray.
Bottom line my friend:
He took over a last place team with prospects, picks and assets to sell.
Three years later his guidance brought us a last place team with not extra picks, no prospects and damaged goods to sell.
ANYONE with eyes could see that.
He made terrible trades and missed huge opportunities.
You completely lose any credibility defending him.
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>LumberJacques</b></div><div>Realistically Buffalo isn't trading Olofsson.</div></div>
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Riley816</b></div><div>Looks like Montreal and Buffalo don't match up as trade partners...</div></div>
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Skyraider112</b></div><div>Olofsson was on pace for 30 goals in his <strong>rookie season</strong>. There is 0 chance we trade him. Domi is good and I would like to acquire him, but not by trading one of the few NHL worthy forwards we have. Also in 2-3 years time, Olofsson >> Domi</div></div>
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>jpsnow13</b></div><div>Shirts will be riped over that one. Way to tease a suffering fanbase.
I'm not getting into that one. I'll go get the popcorn.</div></div>
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Timmah007</b></div><div>It’s unlikely but I don’t think it’s at all unreasonable offer.</div></div>
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>littlejerryseinfeld</b></div><div>no thank you from buffalo
we are a team that struggles to score and Olofsson is very good at it.
Can I interest you in a top 10 (or 7) protected 2021st 1st for domi instead?</div></div>
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>NeedTheCleanser</b></div><div>I’d do it from BUF</div></div>
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Subbanator7667</b></div><div>They're the same age.......how can you judge one will be better then the other when both will likely improve. Olofson will score more but its not like he is younger and has time to get drastically better</div></div>
If I am Buffalo I make that trade for many reasons:
First, Buffalo has a glut of LW without Olofsson. Skinner, Kahun, Johansson, Mittelstadt and they have prospects.
Second, Buffalo needs a center. Even if Cozens could be better than Domi, then great Buffalo has two #2 Centers.
Third, most important, will Olofsson be another PP specialist as Moulson? Or stats inflated by a great center as Jonathan Cheechoo were playing with Joe Thornton?
Fourth, let's presume Olofsson scores 30 or more goals every year for the next five years, Domi has established himself as a solid 50 pt center man.
IMO Buffalo would need to add, to pry Domi out of Montreal if Olofsson was the center piece of the trade.
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>OrganizedConfusion55</b></div><div>Seems more like botts logic to me</div></div>
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>SalamiCheese</b></div><div>Nightmare</div></div>
This will sum it better than I:
<a href="https://wgr550.radio.com/articles/opinion/sabres-still-paying-sins-tim-murray" rel="nofollow noreferrer noopener" target="_blank">https://wgr550.radio.com/articles/opinion/sabres-still-paying-sins-tim-murray</a>
Here is some real Murray logic in case we all forgot:
Robin Lehner and David Legwand to Buffalo Sabres for round 1 pick in the 2015 draft. A cap dump and a bipolar alcoholic for a first when Cam Talbot was traded for 2nd a 3rd.
Braydon McNaab and round 2 pick in the 2014 draft and round 2 pick in the 2015 draft to Los Angeles Kings for Hudson Fasching and Nicolas Deslauriers. I would not make that trade for any ONE of those three pieces. Now McNaab would look really good in Sabre uniform.
Josh Gorges for a second?
Mark Pysyk for Kulikov?
Tyler Myers for Bogosian?
A third round pick to the Pittsburgh Penguins to be able to hire Dan Bylsma?
A third went to the Nashville Predators to get the negotiation rights to Jimmy Vesey?
<strong>But what really is bad is the trades he missed:</strong>
Ristolainen for Hall
<a href="https://buffalohockeycentral.com/2019/07/09/sabres-reportedly-turned-down-deal-for-hall/" rel="nofollow noreferrer noopener" target="_blank">https://buffalohockeycentral.com/2019/07/09/sabres-reportedly-turned-down-deal-for-hall/</a>
<a href="https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:4s1Cwk-NFbUJ:https://www.foxsports.com/nhl/story/buffalo-sabres-ristolainen-for-hall-food-for-thought-091116+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us" rel="nofollow noreferrer noopener" target="_blank">https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:4s1Cwk-NFbUJ:https://www.foxsports.com/nhl/story/buffalo-sabres-ristolainen-for-hall-food-for-thought-091116+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us</a>
<a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/hockey/comments/care66/gregor_apparently_the_sabres_turned_down_a/" rel="nofollow noreferrer noopener" target="_blank">https://www.reddit.com/r/hockey/comments/care66/gregor_apparently_the_sabres_turned_down_a/</a>
<a href="https://www.12up.com/posts/sabres-reportedly-turned-down-laughable-deal-from-oilers-for-taylor-hall-years-ago-01df9szacw2v" rel="nofollow noreferrer noopener" target="_blank">https://www.12up.com/posts/sabres-reportedly-turned-down-laughable-deal-from-oilers-for-taylor-hall-years-ago-01df9szacw2v</a>
Who could pass on Hall for Ristolainen?
Stewart for 2 seconds
<a href="https://boston.cbslocal.com/2015/03/03/bruins-peter-chiarelli-made-two-different-offers-for-chris-stewart/" rel="nofollow noreferrer noopener" target="_blank">https://boston.cbslocal.com/2015/03/03/bruins-peter-chiarelli-made-two-different-offers-for-chris-stewart/</a>
He got 54th over all for Stewart from MIN, if he made the trade with Boston he would have received a 44th in 2015 and 44th in 2016.
And this trade would have been made in October of 2014 when the Sabres wanted to do poorly.
Moulson and Ehrhoff to the Kings for Pearson, Green, first and third
<a href="https://www.nhltraderumors.me/2014/03/nhl-trade-rumors-matt-moulson-to-la.html" rel="nofollow noreferrer noopener" target="_blank">https://www.nhltraderumors.me/2014/03/nhl-trade-rumors-matt-moulson-to-la.html</a>
He got nothing for Ehrhoff and only 2 seconds for Moulson
BTW Murray took over a team that finished last but had the top ranked prospect pool, extra picks and assets to trade.
His trades made Buffalo a last place over all, with no extra picks, and one of the worst ranked prospect pools.
Yes this is my typical rant about Murray, he was Terrible.
BTW, let me add, about that last place team that brought us Dahlin. After Botterill added defense, secondary scoring and Stanley Cup experience the Hockey writers predicted it would make the playoffs.
Where did the Sabres finish with O'Reilly?
Where was St. Louis before Binnington joined the Blues?
Same place in the standings.
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>SalamiCheese</b></div><div>Well, this is not a composition for the playoffs, IMO. Cozens may not yet be ready for the NHL, not to mention the role of 2C. Even if he is ready, I would prefer to give him a safer role. Mittelstadt will probably be sold or will spend season in the AHL. Krueger does not trust the youth too much, he even reduced time to Dahlin and did not rush his development, what to speak about Casey and Tage. Thompson has not yet shown himself in the NHL, but maybe he will be on the list and will fight for the fourth line. I would not return anyone Vesey, Sheary, Sobotka, Frolik, Simmonds, these guys are not helpers to us.
What should Adams do in the offseason:
- find 2C
- find RW for top 9
- find another LD
- get away from Hutton and find a partner for Ullmark
Skinner/Olofsson - Eichel - Reinhart
Skinner/Olofsson - 2C - Kahun/MoJO/acquired RW
MoJO/Kahun - Cozens - Kahun/MoJo/acquired RW
Asplund/Arttu - Lazar/Larsson (if stayed) - Okposo/Tage</div></div>
I do not think our visions are that different.
Obviously a different GK would be great, I wonder if Talbot would sign with Buffalo.
Haula or Galchenyuk or both could be cheap insurance in case the kids do not break into to the line up.
My line up is not much different than yours other than you do not think Mittelstadt will be in the NHL.
Olofsson - Eichel - Kahun
Skinner - Cozens - Reinhart
MoJo - Mittelstadt - Okposo/Tage
Asplund/Arttu/Girgensons - Lazar/Larsson (if stayed) - Okposo/Tage
Tage had a great 2019 AHL playoff, a great prospect challenge and a great 24 games in Rochester: 12-9-21.
Dylan scored more pts and goals in 51 games this year as he did in 68 games last year.
Yup Mittelstadt is the big question mark IMO, but he is close. He had 39 pts in 114 games, hardly the stats of a bust who is only 21 years old.
IMO, sign a mid six forward (Haula or Galchenyuk), a new GK (Talbot), and trade a RHD not named Jokiharju for a LHD.