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Jun 22, 2017
2nd Favourite Team
Vegas Golden Knights
Sep 7, 1983
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<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>ChiHawk</b></div><div>I don't agree with Murphy. Look at his advanced stats and rotating cast of partners last year and in every single incident, including Keith, Murphy made them better. He's a top 4 on a really good team, a top line on a bad team like the Hawks and right handed; guys like him don't grow on trees in the league. Even professional analysts for the Hawks agree that if he's traded, he's going to get a first, give or take, or the equivalent value to a team that is competing. A late 1st is a bag of majic beans with a hit ratio of around 33% acquiring a full time NHL career player keep in mind.
Podkozlin is nothing close to Kane or ever will be. He's a very good A- prospect, but Kakko is simply rated better and you acquire both but trade the better prospect. Kubalik lost both his linemates in Toews and Saad whom he had good chemistry with. Chemistry is a lot of a player's success in the league. Right now, like the beginning third of last season, he hasn't found chemistry with the rotation of guys he's playing with, but like last year if/when he does, then look out. Put Kubalik (sniper) on a line with Kane (playmaker) and a decent center and everything changes which is what the coach should be doing.
Toews being out highly unlikely has anything to do with his one comment challenging rebuilding. He likely is dealing with some sort of disease such as cancer, see Bickell, Covid long hauler, auto immune, etc. Bottom line, Toews is being private about whatever is which suggests something serious. Even Bowman a week ago is not aware of what he's dealing with and reiterated, a player has the right to keep health issues private. Trading him now would be asinine with his value so low. If he is dealing with something chronic, he could be on LITR indefinitely, but regardless, no team is buying on him till Toews comes out and says what he is dealing with. Regarding your trade here and removing Toews, I wouldn't trade Kakko, a 1st, 2nd and 4th for Laine and cap dump alone. I wouldn't do Kakko and a 1st for Laine. Laine is highly one dimensional. Kakko is a top 10/top 15 prospect in the league and strong play driving winger.
Selling off everyone is a very high risk move. For those that haven't played a team sport at high level, culture means everything on a team. You can put together a team of 3 elite stars, 2 franchise players, and great all around role players with good goaltending and they will never win a cup. Turning everything upside down is hardly a recipe for success. Further, again, the Hawks can't retain on this many players and to move Toews or Keith, they will likely have to in order to get market value back for them.</div></div>
I see what you are saying. It's going to be ugly any way you cut it for the next few years unless we hit the jackpot with a few picks. You need to build a new core plain and simple and the core of Kane, Toews, Keith, Seabrook is not rotten and NOT the core any longer. It's tough to say that but it's truth. Kane think at this point is a luxury item on the team and can't be considered part of the "New Core".
As for the new core, there are some names in the running but this is where Bowman needs to double down and decide who some of those guys are. Right now I think you have 2 guys in DeBrincat & Dach that are part of that core. So far I don't think we have a name on the D that can be added to that yet. Boquist is sadly looking like he's far off from consideration and hopefully, we get more of an idea on the other D prospect in the pipeline this season.
2021 is a glorified try out. We will have a decent idea about where our fringeworthy talent stand and that will impact how desperately we need to trade Kane. Kane is the only player on our team that is still considered elite with high return on trade value. I just read a Ranger fan above already call him "aging" and that is true. We are in danger of becoming the Red Wings after they held onto Datsuyk and Zetterberg, Lindstrom, Holmstrum too long. Eventually no one wanted anything to do with the contracts attached to the name that no longer matched the skill.
Yes, it will hurt to see Kane, Toews, Keith wearing another jersey but it will be better off for the Hawks in 10 years if they do it now.
In the cap era, we need to be in front of the problem. The more prospects and picks at this time are better off. Kubalik is the flavor of the month IMO I would compare him to the Steve Sullivan, Krivokrasov, or more recently Versteeg player's great complementary pieces to the winning team and that's where they hold value. I say flip Kubalik for maybe the hopes of hitting the lottery with a prospect who could be an elite talent. Kubalik will not be elite.
The Hawks just extended JC for another 2 years. The writing is on the wall they don't expect to compete for at least 2 years. Hopefully, when you have your new stable of players in 2 years they bring in a coach and not a babysitter the JC is. That's why Toews and other vets hate him.
I am glad that Bowman is digging in and not overpaying guys. His Strome signing proved that he's only resigning players for value deals or they will be gone.
The last point on Murphy is that if we don't deal him now for something we will lose him in the expansion draft and other teams know this. So a 1st round pick won't be coming our way for him.
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>ChiHawk</b></div><div>Murphy is a top 4 defender, physical and the best defender on the Hawks all for a reasonable cap hit and with term. Every day of the week he gets a first and especially at the TDL. Take a look at his advanced stats and his pairings. Murphy is an extremely solid, reliable and youngish defender that pretty much 80% of the league would love to have.
Slow your role, the Hawks have played 3 games with very little training camp; nobody has vanished yet...at least give it a dozen games before you make wild suggestions. Podkozlin though has fell off since his draft year and you're asking the Hawks to take on a giant camp dump as well for another season with dead money. No way is that close to being fair value. There is a reason why multiple regulars here said and agreed with "Canucks take that and run".
Is Toews at this point worth his contract? No, but at $7.5M is he worth it? All day long so you just made him valuable at that cap hit. 81 points 2 seasons ago, on pace for 70 points last year in a regular season, one of the best face off guys in the league and arguable the best captain in the league. 3 and 4 years earlier he had a back injury he was battling through but clearly that is behind him with the points he's put up the last two seasons. Kakko is one of the top 20 prospects in the league and is being rushed into the NHL last year IMO, but his game is more well rounded then Laine so if he hits his potential or close to it, I'd take Kakko every day of the week over Laine. Laine is a one dimensional player which is why he's not talked about as the best in the game. Sure he can score but defensively he's a liability. Toews at $7.5M plus Highmore (who's a really good cheap fast 4th liner) and a 2nd rounder is worth Laine all day, forget throwing in Kakko, a 1st, a 2nd, a 4th and taking on a cap dump.
Suggest you dig deeper instead of looking at simple stat sheets to understand the value of players; look at advanced analytics and consider all the type of game and the intangibles a player brings to the team beyond just eyeballing a simple stat sheet and basing trades off of points.</div></div>
I look well into those stats. If you are confident that Murphy is worth a 1st show me a player of his "caliber" that has been traded recently for that value. I think you will have a difficult time finding that.
I think we clearly value Podkozlin differently, I see him as guy that both he and Dach can be our new Kane & Toews heading into the future. Yes we eat some cash for 2 seasons but we would have landed Podz. I think Kubalik in the long term will fall off a cliff that why I think trading him before that happens is smart especially if it helps get a prospect like Podz.
Now Mr. Toews, it breaks my heart but his actions since the season ended have indicated to me that he wants out of Chicago. I really can't say how concerning it is that he is now on LTIR and his illness/injury has not even been diagnosed, not even "upper body/lower body". So trade value is LOW probably as low at is ever has been with him. He IMO is on the brink of a Seabrook type unmovable contract soon. I don't think anyone will touch him at this point unless it was the "ideal" scenario, enter the Jets. Toews hometown, fans there would love him, maybe he shakes off his illness with the homecoming and is a solid version of himself. Now would the Jets part ways with Laine for a cap haircut Toews + bottom 6 player + 1st 2nd 4th, while trading an expiring contract away in Perreault? I don't think so. Also, this hypothetical deal happens AFTER the deal with the Rangers so if they saw the price Kane cost the Rangers, the Jets will want something similar if not better than that. A top prospect would no doubt have to head back to the Jets in this imaginary trade world ha.
At the end of it all I think the Hawks need to take advantage of no fans and no tickets to sell and trade everyone now for future talent picks anything. It will speed up the process.