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superbrett

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Forum: Armchair-GMFeb. 6, 2019 at 4:31 p.m.
Thread: Why are AGMs on here only saying Marner is in for a huge pay day
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>NucksFanForLife</b></div><div>I hear this one a lot. Kuch is better and is only taking 9.5. He wasn’t money hungry at all. His franchise center had just signed for 8.5 a few years back and he took a million more. Marner sees Tavares and Matthews take 11-11.6 and he’s going to at least equal them in points. And I hate saying this, but Marner has outplayed Matthews. Especially defensively. Matthews has really struggled that way. Marner faces top lines all the time and has played quite well. Taxes are higher in Canada, and Eichel/Matthews had no problem taking more than Kuch. Marner has also called off contract talks until the summer - why? So he can focus and play better thus command a better contract? Toronto isn’t going to let him go. He holds most of the cards, and why shouldn’t he? He’s elite.</div></div>

I just thought that Centres were worth more than wingers? Like that was a well known thing so right off the bat Marner has done nothing to indicate he should be the top paid Winger in the NHL. He and his agent have to realize the max he should be able to get is $10.5 Mil. Baseball has it right with it's arbitration process, there is no way that Marner would get more than Kucherov if this was the case.
Forum: Armchair-GMFeb. 6, 2019 at 3:52 p.m.
Thread: Why are AGMs on here only saying Marner is in for a huge pay day
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Spanky227</b></div><div>yes but toronto has one of the HIGHEST tax rates in the league when florida doesn't have any state income tax so they are significantly lower-- torontos taxes are 16.48% higher than florida. so 9.5*116.48%=11.0656m.. Kucherov also signed that deal when the cap was less. So, if marner accepts anything 11m or less he is making less than kucherov</div></div>

Kucherov's deal takes effect next year so the cap will be the same as is is for Marner &amp; Matthews. They might not have known how much it was going to be but whey knew it would increase.

Also I'm sure that athletes who play in a bigger market get more money in endorsements and appearances then an hockey player playing in Florida. I would bet that Marner would make more money than Kucherov even if they both made $9.5 Mil.
Forum: Armchair-GMFeb. 5, 2019 at 3:39 p.m.
Thread: 6 mil over the cap Ouch
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>goodfella</b></div><div>So which team and which player/prospect are you sending?</div></div>

You don't NEED to send a player is what I am saying. That Datsyuk trade was the 16th pick for the 20th pick and a 2nd rounder. Datsyuk was added to get to the cap floor. Each team gains vaule from it. The Colorado trade was Philipp Grubauer for a 2nd, again the Brooks Orpik thing had mutual value. So my actual trade of a third for a 7th was actual a bad trade for the Leafs. But to give you an example I would say Marleau and Toronto's 3rd to New Jersey (who only have $48 mil committed in Salary next year) and their 4th round pick. If that's too conspicuous maybe Connor Brown and Marleau to NJ for like a 3rd or something? I'm not sure what Brown's value is and I would prefer to keep him. This is a mutually beneficial trade for both teams. It means that New Jersey or Colorado or Arizona or any team in a not strong market can get to the cap floor with only spending like $800,000 or less in ACTUAL money.
Forum: Armchair-GMFeb. 4, 2019 at 12:59 a.m.
Thread: STL TDL - IF Sellers
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Fozziebear6</b></div><div>I know that's a lot but thought retaining money and taking on Zaitsev would help the return. I have heard that TOR is looking for a PF and thought Maroon has looked good with grt talent b4. Was hoping to get some replies from TOR fans to see what they thought. I'm just enamored with Kapanen. Would you do it as a Blues fan if Liljegren was taken out?</div></div>

I'm a Leafs fan and this is almost the exact same trade that I posted in another post. To me Zaitsev's contract gives him negative value. So using the McDonagh and JT Miller trade from last year I think this is fair. Yes the Leafs don't get a Miller but they get rid of bad contract which has value in itself. Kap &amp; Namestikov have the same value. Liljigren is better than Howden but Pietrangelo is better than McDonagh. It may be short sighted to trade Kap &amp; Lil but i would rather have the best shot at winning the Stanley cup this year and maybe next then maybe having the best chance in 3 years for multiple years.
Forum: Armchair-GMFeb. 4, 2019 at 12:43 a.m.
Thread: Leafs Pietrangelo Toughness
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>jonesryan</b></div><div>Did I once say for subpar players? I never even mentioned names as to who would go to St.Louis. Just as I said, Leafs preach patience and development. Teams have been asking about Sandin and Liljegren in every trade request, Toronto isn't looking to move them. That was a big part of the Muzzin deal was that they didn't have to move either of them because they DON'T want to. Just because "he's from the GTA area" does not guarantee he takes a hometown discount. There's 0 way you can say that because you don't know him. That's a big risk to take to give up a top prospect, a young two way roster froward, and a 1st round pick for plus more as you've suggested. Stop overvaluing your players.. again. Pietrangelo is good. Yes. No one doubts that. What he finished last season in Norris Trophy voting, doesn't mean a whole lot now. That's the past. If any team acquires him, his play last year isn't the main factor. It's more what he does now and can they keep him long term or do they lose him to free agency. As I said, there's a very real chance Toronto loses him to free agency when they have so many other key contracts coming up to more valuable players. Would a first round pick be in the deal? Yes. No doubt. But to ask for a top prospect and top young roster player as well, makes no sense for Toronto to give up when they'd lose him and could have those players for many years to come to help them win multiple cups instead of just a one shot at winning one season.
You want that kinda package, I guarantee Toronto says go get it elsewhere. It's not that he may or may not be worth that, but he's not worth it to the Leafs. He's not a fit in Toronto. There's other players that would be more valuable to keep rather than risking it all on 1 player.</div></div>

You mention that they preached patience and what not but do you think that maybe part of the reason that Sandin &amp; Liljigren weren't included in any trades so far is so they could get someone like Pietrangelo? A legit top 2 guy, a captain on his team at a decent contract. I think the addition of Sandin means one of those guys are expendable. I'd rather have the best chance to win the Stanley cup now and go into the playoffs with the best team on paper this year and probably next then go in with a decent chance this year and MAYBE a great chance in 3 years.
Forum: Armchair-GMFeb. 4, 2019 at 12:34 a.m.
Thread: Leafs Pietrangelo Toughness
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>jonesryan</b></div><div>You can sit there and debate who's better between McDonagh and Pietrangelo all day long, and points could be made for both sides. But the fact is that they would both be traded for for the same role, that's a top pairing dman to play the right side (McDonagh did that even though he shoots left) which puts their trade value very similar. When teams make trades, they use comparables all the time. McDonagh trade would be the #1 comparable trade for Pietrangelo.
Zaitsev is not a cap dump. His contract isn't good, but it isn't terrible either. His actually cap hit is fine for what he is, which is a bottom 4 pairing dman. $4.5M for a right handed shooting dman that can play second pairing minutes when the cap keeps rising is well within value. The issue with his contract is the term and if he's going to get any better. If he's put in a better role than he is in Toronto, which would be an offensive guy that leads a PP then no one would complain about his contract. In St. Louis he's have that chance. So saying that he is a strict cap dump, is not true.
As for the McDonagh trade comparison, you're forgetting that J.T Miller was included in that deal going to Tampa Bay who is a very solid top 6 forward. That's where the conditional 1st/2nd came in and the slightly higher prospect. If you wanted that return from Toronto, you'd have to include more than just Pietrangelo. Maybe Robbi Fabri? Not sure with his injury history so maybe a Jaeden Schwartz? Which again would require more salary going from Toronto to St. Louis which could increase the value of the prospects.
If it was just Pietrangelo going to Toronto the facts and conparables are extremely similar:
1) both being acquired to be a top pairing right side dman
2) both have a year and a half left until UFA status
3) both teams moving the players are looking for a retool/rebuild

Plus it's worth taking into consideration Pietrangelo's current cap hit of $6.5M which makes Toronto's cap tighter. When McDonagh was traded, he was only making $4.7M which slightly adds to his value.

However as I said, I don't see Pietrangelo as a fit in Toronto. They'd most likely lose him when he becomes a UFA, and getting Sandin or Liljegren outta Toronto is gonna take an offer that they can't refuse because they'll be the young, fast, cheap, internal options to replace guys that leave in free agency. Leafs have preached patience and development from day 1 that Shanahan was brought it. They'd much rather look at the long term success chances with young guys like Sandin and Liljegren rather than a 1 year window with Pietrangelo. Just can't see it happening. Especially now that they've got Muzzin who is a perfect fit for Toronto</div></div>

You mention comparisons and I can't think of a time in recent history where a 3rd year player who is under performing on his current team with 5 more years on his contract at $4.5 mil has been traded and what the return is. If the Leafs were to make a trade they would 100% need to move Zaitsev to make room for the oncoming contract.

Also I didn't forget Fabbri or Schwartz, I mentioned both of them in my other post above as a JT Miller comparable. The Cap Has also increased by what, $4 mil since last year so the % isn't AS bad as it looks (6.2% compared to 8.2%).
Forum: Armchair-GMFeb. 4, 2019 at 12:20 a.m.
Thread: Leafs Pietrangelo Toughness
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>brian123</b></div><div>I think that the above trade equates to Pietrangelo + cap dump for Zaitsev, THREE 1st round picks, a 2nd (potentially ANOTHER 1st), and a 4th?
Only 1 of the firsts should be required (Kapanen, Liljegren or the pick) IMO.</div></div>

Are you saying the 3 first round picks are Kapanen (1st round pick in 2014), Liljigren (1st Round Pick 2017) and the 2020 pick plus the conditional pick? Because that is exactly what Tampa Paid for McDonagh and Miller (Howden &amp; Namestikov were both 1st round picks and they gave up at least 1 in 2019). The only difference is Tampa didn't have a cap dump in there. For me at least, the cap dump and getting a UFA back to replace Kapanen is the same as getting JT Miller. Or are you saying that Maroon and his less then #2 mil cap hit is a cap dump from St Louis? I see Maroon as a somewhat useful player. Also the final trade I proposed was Kap, Lil, Zaitsev, 2020 1st and a 2019 3rd for Pietrangelo and Maroon. Which may feel like an over payment but when you compare it to the Tampa trade it's almost exactly the same. Again in my opinion Pietrangelo is greater then McDonagh but that is equalized because Liljigren is better then Howden. We lose the cap hit of Zaitsev which is the equivalent of taking on JT Miller and the Namestikov and Kapanen have the same value. would I love to put Brown in instead of Kap? Heck yeah, but I honestly feel this is the closest comparison that we can offer to what Tampa offered NYR last year at the deadline.
Forum: Armchair-GMFeb. 3, 2019 at 5:01 p.m.
Thread: Leafs Pietrangelo Toughness
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>jonesryan</b></div><div>Leafs aren't overpaying that much for Pietrangelo. Think realistically what McDonagh and Muzzin both got in return. All are top dman on a struggling team with a year and a half left on their contract. A 1st round pick and 2 B level prospects is more than fair. Sandin and Liljegren are off the table because both would be internal replacements when Pietrangelo would walk as a UFA next summer. Kapanen isn't getting moved for a rental either.
Best offer you get from Toronto is a 1st, Zaitsev, and 2 mid tier prospects. That's more than fair value for Pietrangelo.</div></div>

I'm a Leafs fan and I disagree. I broke it down above but Pietrangelo is better then both McDonagh &amp; Muzzin and McD cost a 1st, a conditional 2nd, a top prospect and another prospect. In 2017 Howden was Ranked the 79th prospect in NHL according to The Hockey Writers. According to The Sporting News Liljigren is the 41st top NHL prospect.

Using your same logic the trade you proposed is nowhere near close enough to get Pietrangelo, especially if the Leafs are adding the cap dump, which Zaitsev is and a big one for a long time.
Forum: Armchair-GMFeb. 3, 2019 at 4:40 p.m.
Thread: Leafs Pietrangelo Toughness
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>BeastModeUnknown</b></div><div>Hard Pass from the Blues. Kapanen, Liljegren/Sandin, 1st, and maybe a smaller piece included since your first will be 2020.</div></div>

This. It will take at least Kapanen, Liljigren a 1st and another piece or two especially if the Leafs are looking to dump a contract like Zaitsev's. Look at the Mcdonaugh trade between Tampa and NYR last year as a template. Pietrangelo is more valuable then McDonagh. Although and the Leafs wouldn't be able to take on a JT Miller type while also looking to dump Zaitsev's contract. If they were to mirror the NYR/Tampa trade from last year:
Liljigren (I think he is a better prospect then Howden who was either #2 or 3 in Tampa's top 10 last year, although I may have my Leaf glasses on)
Kapanen (On par with Namestikov coming from a life long London Knights Fan)
Adam Brooks (I couldn't find Libor Hajek on any top prospect list and I don't really know much about him. Brooks is the 12th top prospect for Toronto according to leafsnation)
2020 1st round pick (2019 is gone)
2020 2nd round pick (become 1st in 2021 if Toronto wins SC)

For
Pietrangelo (Better than McDonagh)
If Robby Fabbri was better or Jaden Schwarz was worse

As it stands they DO need to add that Cap Dump and they can't afford another forward contract back that doesn't expire at the end of this year. It'd be a tough one to get done. Maybe they don't need to add the conditional 1st/prospect and take back someone like Pat Maroon(another London Knight Alum!) So it would be:
Liljigren, Kapanen, Zaitsev 2020 1st round Pick 2019 3rd round pick

For

Pietrangelo, Maroon

Is that fair or do the Leafs need to add more? I know Maroon has a limited NTC. I tried to follow that trade template from last year. I don't know if Zaitsev is at the place where he has negative value yet but for this trade to work he needs to be traded. Maybe each team could take $1 mil back so the he is only $3.5 mil for the next 5ish years?
Forum: Armchair-GMJan. 29, 2019 at 4:55 p.m.
Thread: nothing has changed
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Juice</b></div><div>I think that might be even more far fetched...but not impossible. He'd have to waive to go to a team...that team buys him out and he opts to skip the waiver process. It costs that team $833k split over two years but they take the full $6.25m cap hit. He's then UFA and can sign back with the leafs for $2m or so. Works in theory...but it wouldn't surprise me if the league quickly closed that loophole and issued penalties to the teams that pulled this kind of stunt off (same way Devils got penalized after the fact for the Kovulchuk contract). So it's playing with fire when it's obvious a team is exploiting the CBA language to circumvent the cap</div></div>

When you look at the actual penalty that New Jersey got for that it wasn't as bad as when it was first assessed. Also who was the GM that initiated that cap circumvention? The same one who signed Marleau to the 3 year deal that only pays $1.25 Mil in the final year... If this wasn't the intention from the get go then I can't see why the contract was structured that way. There's no way Washington's GM was the first person to think of this.
Forum: Armchair-GMJan. 29, 2019 at 3:40 p.m.
Thread: nothing has changed
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Juice</b></div><div>Sure it matters.

If he doesn't retire it's unlikely he would waive his NMC to facilitate a trade.

If he does retire...what does he care where his contract is traded? Leafs would obviously have to work out a trade with another team where they take the cap hit and the leafs offer then something for doing so...but Marleau retiring opens up an avenue for his contract to be traded.</div></div>

This. Except I think that he probably won't retire but they will do a Brooks Orpik type trade with some team that needs to get to the cap floor. Until that is illegal I feel like it is a great cap circumvention tool. They desperately need to re-allocate that money. Maybe he can come back at a 1 year $1.5 Mil deal or something like that.