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uphere

Simpleton
Member Since
Jun. 9, 2017
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Edmonton Oilers
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Montreal Canadiens
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Forum: Edmonton OilersAug. 23, 2022 at 4:34 p.m.
Thread: What Is Barrie Actually Worth
The closest comparable I can think of is John Klingberg. He signed with the Ducks for $7M x 1, proving there is a market for these kinds of players. However, the trade market is cut-throat right now, and the meaning of "cap dump" appears to have been redefined. In the salary cap era, there have always been trades that were motivated by the need to be cap compliant. In the past, the term "cap dump" was used to describe transactions that involved players of little, or rapidly diminishing value. Today a "cap dump" may involve a player of significant value, as evidenced by recent transactions involving Vegas.

At the time Barrie signed his current contract the total value was team friendly, the AAV of $4.5M was considered low and I'm sure Ken Holland felt he'd have no trouble moving Barrie before the 3-year deal came to an end. Most fans felt the term was not ideal, but understood that it was necessary in order to keep the AAV down. Well, since then, Evan Bouchard's game developed much quicker than anticipated, and League revenues went into the dumpster and the salary cap stagnated.

I think the length of Barrie's contract is the biggest impediment to a trade in today's market. In my opinion, this player probably garners more interest and a better return at the TDL, or in the next off-season. At the very least, he should be less expensive to move by then. In the meantime, Woodcroft and Manson have to figure out how to achieve some balance on Edmonton's blue line, and Holland needs to figure out how he's going to get his team under the salary cap.
Forum: Armchair-GMAug. 19, 2022 at 3:49 p.m.
Thread: Kane is Plan One
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>yycofred</b></div><div>Mid season rankings last year Lavoie snuck into the top 80 while having a really bad first half of the year, I don't know if Chicago would necessarily be looking for less than half a point per game AHL guys in return for a face of the franchise player, Samorukov not on the list. Recently Samorukov made the top 10 Oilers prospect list but Lavoie was bumped off it.. not really trending in the right direction. Edmonton's prospect pool is probably in the bottom third of the league? Along with a lot of the competitive teams and these guys are well down the list in the Oilers depth charts. Along with 50% retained and Foegle that's clearing cap for the Oilers this package is woefully insufficient.

2024-25 season the Blackhawks are holding a prospect picked between 25 - 32, whatever they could get out of Puljujarvi if they flip him, or nothing because he takes his ball and goes somewhere else like he did when he wasn't happy in Edmonton, maybe a middle 6 winger and a left shot D man which could be the most over saturated position in hockey right now. Not a great way to rebuild is it? Especially after watching what Kent Hughes got in a tear down, tons of picks and really young really controllable assets that grow with the organization.</div></div>

You've confirmed my suspicion.
Forum: Armchair-GMAug. 19, 2022 at 10:52 a.m.
Thread: Kane is Plan One
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>yycofred</b></div><div>Mentioned in another thread, why does Chicago value anything from Edmonton that isn't Holloway, Bourgault, Broberg? Edmonton picks won't have a ton of value, Puljujarvi can walk to UFA in 2024 and Chicago is left holding nothing of value while their rebuild is trying to get off the ground. Chicago has to be looking for long term control of prospects that can grow with the core to 4 - 5 years.</div></div>

While I think Chicago might get a better offer elsewhere, I also think you are either not familiar with Samorukov and Lavoie, or you seriously underestimate the potential they represent. That package provides a future two-way 2nd pairing LD and a very solid middle six RW capable of providing depth scoring. It should also be mentioned that while both have developed a bit slower than the three Oiler prospects you've identified, they are on track to blossom within the next 1-2 seasons.
Forum: Armchair-GMAug. 16, 2022 at 9:11 a.m.
Forum: Armchair-GMAug. 15, 2022 at 5:34 p.m.
Thread: Borrowed ACGM Ideas
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Billy316</b></div><div>Doesnt mean anything when GM Kent Hughes has publicly said outright he wont do what you suggested ever.
Every action he's made to date backs that up

What you think of Anderson is irrelevant as is what i think
Reality is Hughes wasnt paying or even taking a loss on Petry holding out just long enough to get a decent deal with 0% RS.
Literally every action he's made to date suggest's he'll continue to do so.

Hughes uses his RS at the TDL to maximize returns much bigger then MB or most NHL GM's woulda got.
You and Kent are both without Experience as Gm's but Kent has the vision to know how a trade like this ignores context to focus on cap.

Given that Suzuki-Caufield were a Point Per Game after MSL 1st move as coach promoting Andersont to top line moving him to LW for the first time in MTL.
I dont see them moving Anderson unless its for a profit just because fans took a response to a comment about dealing Tyler Toffoli out of nowhere

“I think it was reported that we could trade Josh Anderson because we’re getting a lot of calls on Josh in the past, but we never moved him,” said Hughes while addressing the rumours that have been flying the last week. “We’re in 32nd place, we need to evaluate all options we have to create flexibility under the Salary Cap. It’s not our plan.”

The article further covers Hughes thoughts which basically were "over pay us and we'll move him " citing a half a dozen teams at the TDL were in on him and more have called since the season ended</div></div>

In keeping with the question posed by KISS_My_Asthma, I offer my thoughts regarding the trades proposed. You have quoted my comments and offered a rebuttal that appears misdirected. I have made no comment regarding Kent Hughes, the transactions he's made this summer, whether Josh Anderson should be traded, or how he should be deployed within the Canadiens' roster.

Reality is what it is, but the question posed asked us to comment on the hypothetical. With that in mind, I maintain that with Evander Kane signed the Oilers do not need Josh Anderson, even with salary retention.
Forum: Armchair-GMAug. 13, 2022 at 9:02 p.m.
Thread: Borrowed ACGM Ideas
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>cMac73</b></div><div>The 2 cap dumps cancel out Broberg. And then it’s just a prospect and a 1st for Grzelcyk and Carlo. Not enough. Plus the Bruins aren’t selling this year.

I mean actually with getting Barrie and trading out the other 2 it reconstructs our defense, and could be helpful. You know I’d actually take that deal.</div></div>

<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Warpbox</b></div><div>There’s no way Montreal retains half for 5 years</div></div>

The deal with Montreal suggest giving up a very strong middle six forward and a prospect who projects to be a scoring middle six forward. That is in exchange for a guy who is a bit redundant, and if fact a down grade, now that Evander Kane is under contract in Edmonton for the duration of the projected championship window. That doesn't make a lot of sense. The trade with Boston is not realistic. The Bruins want to make another run with their ancient core, and Carlo is too important for them. The Oilers core is better, and it's just entering its prime. Carlo would provide a big boost, but that price is simply too high. In terms of asset management, there are probably far better deals out there.
Forum: Armchair-GMAug. 8, 2022 at 12:15 p.m.
Thread: time to finesse cap space
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Nqutilus</b></div><div>If he’s reliant on good teammates, trade him to a contender. Chicago is getting rid of all their good players (I would bet on Kane being traded away at the deadline), so if he were to be on the team I would expect a horrid season out of him. Not something I want to be giving away futures for.</div></div>

I agree, Foegele is not a typical cap dump candidate. Being a strong complimentary player, he would normally be the kind of addition a playoff team might be interested in. The NHL is not operating normally though, and that is a big challenge for every one of the league's top teams. Simply put, each of those teams has salary cap pressure that challenges the ability to compete a roster. That's why many AcGMs default to dumping contracts on the Blackhawks, Coyotes, Sabres, Ducks, etc.. I'm not saying a I agree with that strategy, I'm just acknowledging that it is a trend on capFriendly.com.
Forum: Armchair-GMAug. 6, 2022 at 5:08 p.m.
Thread: time to finesse cap space
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Dekes</b></div><div>you arent getting positive value for either of those guys lol. Rebuilding teams take on cap dumps for picks they don't give up picks for them.</div></div>

<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Nqutilus</b></div><div>Please stop expecting Chicago to send back picks for bad players like Foegele.</div></div>

Tyson Barrie and John Klingberg are quite similar players, but Barrie is paid $4.5M and Klingberg just signed in L.A. for $7M. Barrie represents good value to any team looking for an offensive RHD who can quarterback a top power play unit. Most teams with that need are pretty tight to the cap ceiling and still need to complete their rosters. The Oilers have said they are happy to have Barrie with them next year, and it seems the only reasons his name is rumored to be on the trade block are the emergence of Evan Bouchard and Edmonton's need to get under the salary cap. He will not be a cap dump, Holland won't give him away,

Warren Foegele is also a solid NHL player who is rumored to be on the trade block for similar reasons. The Oilers need to clear some cap space, they signed Mattius Janmark and Dylan Holloway looks like a solid bet to stick with the Oilers this year. Where Barrie has near elite level power play stats, there is nothing spectacular about Foegele's game, he's just a fast and physical forward who generates a lot of scoring chances when playing with elite teammates. Given that he's a left handed forward who can play on either wing, he has some versatility. However, he is much easier to replace than Barrie, and therefore more difficult o trade if the Oilers want a fair return.
Forum: Armchair-GMAug. 5, 2022 at 6:59 p.m.
Thread: Makin some moves
N<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>fixitf11</b></div><div>Not currently, rn he is listed on IR not LTIR, and some owners hate having players on LTIR cause even though the salary doesn’t count on the cap, they still have to pay the money. I don’t know much about EDM’s owner other than watching a urinating tree episode that painted him as a bit stingy which is why I paint him as an owner that wouldn’t like having players on LTIR</div></div>

Carrying those contracts is not ideal for the Oilers, but the flexibility gained by moving them is not worth assets it would cost to do so.

Daryl Katz grew up in Edmonton and is a fan with piles and piles of money. His core business is pretty much recession proof. In Canada, he owns the rights to Medicine Shoppe, he also owns the Rexall chain of Pharmacies, and his father founded Value Drug Mart. It doesn't matter what the economy does, people will always need their pharmaceuticals. Based on the investments he's made in Edmonton, and in the Oilers Entertainment Group in particular, it appears as though $5,169,000 is probably chump change for him.
Forum: Armchair-GMAug. 5, 2022 at 6:41 p.m.
Thread: trade dumba
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>MNBassman</b></div><div>You clearly haven’t seen Dumba play for a few years!</div></div>

You clearly have not given any thought to all of the parameters that should be considered when contemplating a trade. The Oilers believe they have 3-4 seasons in which to contend for a Stanley Cup, so that 3rd round draft pick has no meaningful value for them. They are $6M over the salary cap, so they may have to start the next season with a 21-man roster in order to be cap compliant. Puljujarvi is one of four right handed forwards they have, Yamamoto and Ryan are the only others who play RW. The Oilers needs size up front and Puljujarvi is a big, strong man while Yamamoto and Ryan are not.

The trade proposal might provide Edmonton an upgraded top four group of d-men, but the cost would deplete an area of need and leave them unable to address the huge gap on RW. Dumba is a very good hockey player, but he's not worth that much.
Forum: Armchair-GMAug. 4, 2022 at 6:44 a.m.
Thread: offseason
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>ceeque84</b></div><div>Realistically i dont think barrie will be moved unti next offseason. Moving Barrie creates a hole on the Right side defence &amp; they dont have a cheaper option within the org to fill that hole so a useable RHD would have to be coming back in any trade for Barrie....
If i had my wish I would have Ryan and Foegele being moved as they are both pieces that are easily replaced with cheaper UFA's or even call ups from the A.
Sadly I think Pujli is still likely to be moved, but this still confuses the hell out of me because the Oilers severely lack right shot wingers throughout the entire organization right down to the reserve list.</div></div>

I agree that Barrie is likely to remain with the Oilers, and that's fine with me as long as Jay and Dave don't throw Broberg and Niemelainen/Samorukov to the wolves. That might mean breaking up the Nurse/Ceci duo and hoping Holland brings in another veteran by the TDL.

There's been a lot of speculation regarding Puljujarvi, who among us can be certain what is going on with him and the Oilers? As with all things, time will eventually reveal the truth.

If JP is traded away, perhaps Evan Rodrigues is a possibility? He doesn't posses the size and strength that Puljujarvi has, but Rodrigues is a solid middle six forward who scored 19 goals and 43 points last season. He's also capable of playing C and RW.

Mid term, Raphael Lavoie has been streaky since turning pro but he has the size, skating, and skill to be a solid NHL middle six forward who can provide depth scoring some day. The arrival of Bourgault should motivate Lavoie, as its likely those two may compete for call up opportunities.