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Forums/Armchair-GM

Why Acquiring Ryan Ellis Doesn't Make Sense

Created by: OldNYIfan
Team: 2019-20 Toronto Maple Leafs
Initial Creation Date: Jul. 19, 2018
Published: Jul. 19, 2018
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Description
Several AGM's have noticed that Ryan Ellis' contract comes up for renewal next year. They suggest either signing him in 2019 or (even worse) trading for him this year, assuming he will automatically re-sign with Toronto in 2019. Putting that optimistic conviction aside, here's the math. Note that I'm one player under the roster limit, have used VERY conservative figures for the FA's, promoted the cheapest guys possible from the Marlies, have a third defense pair that has never played a single game in the NHL as yet, and I'm still over the salary cap.
Free Agent Signings
RFAYEARSCAP HIT
8$10,000,000
8$7,000,000
8$6,000,000
4$1,750,000
3$1,666,666
3$750,000
UFAYEARSCAP HIT
5$5,200,000
Retained Salary Transactions
DraftRound 1Round 2Round 3Round 4Round 5Round 6Round 7
2020
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2021
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2022
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ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
22$79,500,000$73,927,776$0$735,000$5,572,224
Left WingCentreRight Wing
$700,000$700,000
LW, C
UFA - 1
$11,000,000$11,000,000
C, LW
NMC
UFA - 6
$6,000,000$6,000,000
RW
UFA - 5
$2,250,000$2,250,000
RW, LW
M-NTC
UFA - 2
$10,000,000$10,000,000
C
UFA - 5
$7,000,000$7,000,000
RW
UFA - 6
$1,666,666$1,666,666
LW, RW
UFA - 4
$4,500,000$4,500,000
C
M-NTC
UFA - 3
$2,100,000$2,100,000
RW, LW
UFA - 1
$694,444$694,444 (Performance Bonus$70,000$70K)
LW
UFA - 1
$1,750,000$1,750,000
RW
UFA - 3
$675,000$675,000
C
UFA - 1
$842,500$842,500 (Performance Bonus$82,500$82K)
RW
UFA - 1
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
$5,000,000$5,000,000
LD
UFA - 3
$5,200,000$5,200,000
RD
UFA - 8
$5,000,000$5,000,000
G
M-NTC
UFA - 2
$863,333$863,333
LD/RD
UFA - 1
$4,500,000$4,500,000
RD
M-NTC
UFA - 5
$697,500$697,500 (Performance Bonus$182,500$182K)
LD
UFA - 1
$863,333$863,333 (Performance Bonus$400,000$400K)
RD
RFA - 3
$750,000$750,000
G
UFA - 1
$675,000$675,000
RD
UFA - 1
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
$5,300,000$5,300,000
RW
M-NTC, NMC
UFA - 1

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Jul. 19, 2018 at 3:38 p.m.
#1
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Agreed. And you were also very conservative on the numbers for Mathews & Kapanen (Marner and Nylander are close to what I would give em). Even 5.2 for Ellis is a low ball on the open market. But yeah, over the cap with still a player to sign and Horton's LTIR applied. Even increasing the cap by a conservative 2 mill isn't helping.
OldNYIfan liked this.
Jul. 19, 2018 at 3:38 p.m.
#2
Formerly Jamiepo
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You are over “this years” salary cap...
rush5154 liked this.
Jul. 19, 2018 at 3:39 p.m.
#3
CTN
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IMO you're about a million short in Matthews, Marner and Ellis' contracts. Nylander is probably in the ball park and Marner would be if he signed today. But even with that million you could still possibly be under the cap
Jul. 19, 2018 at 3:41 p.m.
#4
dirtysaucedonny
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Agreed completely. Despite having Marleau come off the books soon, the leafs will definitely need some cap help. The cap will go up, but not by the amount they will need to keep all of their valuable assets. That Zaitsev deal looked like a nightmare the minute it was signed, and will only get worse if he can't find another level to his game. I think some assistance should come in the form of looking to trade Gardiner and Marleau as a package for a D. Only other option when looking for a place to find money would be trading Nylander for a defenceman of his calibre. No way this Leafs team makes it out of the East, let alone wins a cup, with a D core looking like that.
OldNYIfan liked this.
Jul. 19, 2018 at 3:42 p.m.
#5
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Quoting: Jamiepo
You are over “this years” salary cap...


That's the whole point. Didn't you read the Team Description before posting?
Jul. 19, 2018 at 3:43 p.m.
#6
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Quoting: Crunchthenumbers
IMO you're about a million short in Matthews, Marner and Ellis' contracts.


That's the whole point. Put the three where they're likely to end up and you're WAY over the cap.
Jul. 19, 2018 at 3:53 p.m.
#7
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Quoting: dirtysaucedonny
Agreed completely. Despite having Marleau come off the books soon, the leafs will definitely need some cap help. The cap will go up, but not by the amount they will need to keep all of their valuable assets. That Zaitsev deal looked like a nightmare the minute it was signed, and will only get worse if he can't find another level to his game. I think some assistance should come in the form of looking to trade Gardiner and Marleau as a package for a D. Only other option when looking for a place to find money would be trading Nylander for a defenceman of his calibre. No way this Leafs team makes it out of the East, let alone wins a cup, with a D core looking like that.


In other constructions I've suggested trading Gardiner now for Stephen Johns (Dallas) or Jon Merrill (Las Vegas). I would even sweeten any deal with a high draft pick because it can be seen as the cost of signing John Tavares.
dirtysaucedonny liked this.
Jul. 19, 2018 at 3:55 p.m.
#8
GM Hockeysaurus Rex
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Agreed
OldNYIfan liked this.
Jul. 19, 2018 at 4:10 p.m.
#9
LongtimeLeafsufferer
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Well the cap might be 83m not 79.5. I'll agree that trading for a one year Ellis makes no sense. But let's think June 2019, and the Leaf management has decided they want to improve RHD and can get Ellis as UFA at a reasonable price. Then for sure, a high priced forward...probably Nylander or Kadri would have to be traded. You may not get quite the value back in a trade and the trade would have to be for picks and/or cheap ELC players.
Teams have cap problems if they cannot fill. out their roster with needs because they have untradeable players blocking their roster due to cap. Similarly the Leafs kinda make a trade this summer. They "traded" 7m JVR and 5m Bozak for 11m Tavares.
Maybe next summer the "trade" might be Nylander for Canes Fleury, Mckoewn and 12th overall pick and Ellis.
So there shouldn't be any regret trading a player and getting value in return and using the cap to sign a player for position you really need.
OldNYIfan liked this.
Jul. 19, 2018 at 4:23 p.m.
#10
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Quoting: palhal
Well the cap might be 83m not 79.5. I'll agree that trading for a one year Ellis makes no sense. But let's think June 2019, and the Leaf management has decided they want to improve RHD and can get Ellis as UFA at a reasonable price. Then for sure, a high priced forward...probably Nylander or Kadri would have to be traded. You may not get quite the value back in a trade and the trade would have to be for picks and/or cheap ELC players.
Teams have cap problems if they cannot fill. out their roster with needs because they have untradeable players blocking their roster due to cap. Similarly the Leafs kinda make a trade this summer. They "traded" 7m JVR and 5m Bozak for 11m Tavares.
Maybe next summer the "trade" might be Nylander for Canes Fleury, Mckoewn and 12th overall pick and Ellis.
So there shouldn't be any regret trading a player and getting value in return and using the cap to sign a player for position you really need.


Another brilliant analysis, argument and suggestion. You really should do this for a living. And how did you know Roland McKeown is one of my favorite prospects to watch?
Jul. 19, 2018 at 5:29 p.m.
#11
LongtimeLeafsufferer
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Quoting: OldNYIfan
Another brilliant analysis, argument and suggestion. You really should do this for a living. And how did you know Roland McKeown is one of my favorite prospects to watch?


I didn't know he was one of your favourites. I was just thinking of logical trade....Canes wants forwards, and if the Leaf wanted cheap ELCs who are potentially good, those names came up.

Thanks for saying I should do this for a living. After watching Pat Quinn, Ferguson, Burke and Nonis, I was schooled very well in NOT what to do as Leaf GM.
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Jul. 19, 2018 at 5:37 p.m.
#12
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Quoting: palhal
I didn't know he was one of your favourites. I was just thinking of logical trade....Canes wants forwards, and if the Leaf wanted cheap ELCs who are potentially good, those names came up.

Thanks for saying I should do this for a living. After watching Pat Quinn, Ferguson, Burke and Nonis, I was schooled very well in NOT what to do as Leaf GM.


Who's this?

Acquired Jeff Carter -- Great move
Acquired Marian Gaborik -- Great move
Acquired Mike Richards -- good move at the time
Retained Mike Richards -- bad move, and I said so at the time
Acquired Moilan Lucic -- bad move, and I said so at the time
Acquired Andrej Sekera -- really terrible move, I said so at the time, and hence my interest in Roland McKeown
palhal liked this.
 
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