This once amazing franchise is in ruins. This is a team right up against the cap that won't come remotely close to making the playoffs. Holland is looking more and more like a man out of touch with the hockey world. It's going to be a while before this team is back to the top of the heap.

Question, can a team place a player on LTIR before the season starts as to take advantage of it when the off season cap bonus is no longer given to teams? I always thought a team had to be compliant with a LTIR player full salary to start the year and then once the season starts they could then use LTIR on that player to get the relief?

I’m pretty sure you can place someone on LTIR until the season officially starts but as for cap compliance in the offseason... I’m not sure

THeir defense is abysmal but the future up front is very promising to me at least. After this year they will get some cap relief and hopefully Holland doesn’t blow it on past their prime players.

Just look at Montreal and you can see that you get no where without a franchise centre and you have zero on your team or in your pipeline.

I'm also pretty sure you have to be compliant on opening night with the CAP and that LTIR can only be used after the start of the season. DET is going to have to make a move prior to the start of the season Franzens 4M is still on the books opening night

I thought the same thing, but after doing some research, I believe you can put a man on LTIR before the start of the season, but you do not get to use the total savings of his cap.

Example.

Say the cap is 79,500,000 but a team is over by 500,00. if they put a player with a 5,000,000 cap hit on LTIR before the season starts the only get 500, 000 cap relief (to bring them at the cap limit) and have to carry the other 4,500,000 cap hit on the books. In essence they do not get the full 5,000,000 cap savings from LTIR. Only the portion that it takes to get to the cap limit.

To take full advantage of the LTIR, the team needs to be below or at the high point of the cap. being over only allows to use the portion of the cap to get to the high limit and handcuffing the rest of the cap and not allowing the team to use it during the season.

I believe this shows that they are either going to trade a player (Nyquist or AA) or that Zetterberg is going on LTIR and his cap number will come off the books and will allow the team to sign or bring up players to field a 23 man roster.

I see, that's what I thought. I imagine a trade has to happen now.

I feel like you are the one out of touch with this franchise. Detroit is not in ruins. The franchise had 25 seasons straight of making the playoffs and in the cap salary era, you can't hold onto that forever. Management was pushing to keep that streak alive and that is why Holland went out and signed some questionable contracts and made trades at the deadline; so the team could push to make the playoffs. As soon as Detroit didn't make the playoffs they went into rebuild mode. Let's look at what has happened since then:

Traded Tomas Jurco for a 3rd round pick.
Traded Brendan Smith for a 2nd and 3rd round picks.
Traded Thomas Vanek for a 3rd round pick.
Traded Steve Ott for a 6th round pick.
Traded Tom McCollum for a 7th round pick.
Traded Riley Sheahan for what turns out to be a 3rd round pick after flipping Wilson for the 5th they originally gave up.
Traded away Ryan Sproul for an AHL player which freed up the defense logjam that was happening.
Drafted 6'6" center Michael Rasmussen who had an outstanding WHL playoffs with 33 points in 14 games.
Traded Peter Mrazek for two 3rd round picks.
Traded Tomas Tatar for a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round picks.
Had an amazing draft (Zadina, Veleno, Berggren, and McIsaac).
Signed Athanasiou, Mantha, and Larkin to very reasonable deals.

I don't understand the illusion some people have of this team not in a rebuild mode. I can see some people being confused and upset about signing Vanek and Green this offseason. Holland has explained the reasoning behind this. He doesn't want Detroit's rebuild to look like Edmonton or Arizona or Buffalo. Teams that stuck in the basement for so many years. He wants to surround the young kids with veterans who can compete. Don't just throw out a non-competitive team out there to lose all the team. Players get demoralized by that.

Are there currently bad contracts on this team? Yes. Is Detroit currently in cap hell? Yes. Helm, Abdelkader, Dekeyser, Eriksson, and to an extent Nielsen are all bad contracts. However, these contracts aren't going to cripple Detroit past this year. They have a ton of cap coming off the books after this year. Zetterberg will most likely not play past this season and will need to be put on LTIR resulting in a bunch of cap relief.

Holland has set this team up to be contenders in 3-5 years. The forward core looks very promising. The defense is still being worked on, but guys like Hronek, Cholowski, Lindstrom, and McIsaac all project to be top 4 defencemen. The future is bright for this team. They are trending upwards and won't be stuck in the basement for too long.

I believe we have a franchise center in Larkin. Also Rasmussen and Veleno could both develop to good 2nd line centers but the jury’s still out on them.

Here is a great resource for LTIR related questions: LTIR FAQ

That's a bunch of hope. I appreciate that but it sounds like a few other teams out there too. Vancouver is peddling the same BS rebuild, all that style of rebuild does is keep you out of the top pick. Edmonton and Buffalo are two teams that on more than 1 occasion tried to rush their rebuild, I have a feeling Buffalo is going to do the same thing again soon which stalls the rebuild. Let the kids play or shelter them in the minors and let a terrible bunch of veterans on expiring contracts lose a bunch so you can trade them for more futures and then let kids come in and take on prominent rolls as the team trends back up. Like Toronto did.

Or follow teams like Montreal who keep spinning your wheels because you aren't good enough and can't find the star players to build around unless you draft them.

How many teams does Larkin play 1C on in the NHL? Maybe 4 or 5? If he was on the Maple Leafs for example he'd be moved to Left wing, because they have 3 centres better than he is currently. Don't fall into the trap that so many teams have done and try to make a good player turn into a great player, it damages your rebuild and also hurts the player because it puts pressure on him that he can't possibly keep up with.

Dude, I agree with just about everything you payed out. The only caveat, for Detroit to become an actual contender than they need to find a top D prospect and goalie. My hopes are that they trade Goose to Boston for Zboril and Cholowski developes into a top line guy but still, neither of them fit the bill of a Norris caliber player so maybe we get that guy in next years draft.. I also think Trouba is a real possibility and there is a few goalies out there that may be able to come in; Either Bob or Korp if Columbus decides to go with the other or maybe Sparks from Toronto.

He's only 22. How many first line centers are 22 period? Can I borrow your crystal ball so I can write off all of Detroit's prospects? Larkin is already a 2C and is only getting better. Chicago won three cups with a second line center playing on the first line.

The difference between us and Vancouver is the term we gave to those veterans. Vanek got 1 year and Green got 2 years. Vancouver signed both Beagle and Roussel to 4 years. Also Vanek and Green have more offense than both Beagle and Roussel.

I would contend that Detroit is following how the Jets did their rebuild. Look at that team now.

Yes I agree, we definitely need a #1 defenseman. I think FA gives us a few options that could work, Karlsson, Trouba. I'm never too worried about goaltending as drafting is a crap shoot, but there are usually trades to be made for one.

He’s 22 and still developing! You’re absolutly right, he could stall out and never develop past a 2nd line center on an average team but even with a slight improvement on last year he could be a top guy on a handful of teams. Ask again next offseason and we’ll see.

It's indicative that you named Toronto as a successful rebuild. I mean hey it's only been 51 years...any minute now. Vancouver is a BS rebuild? Elias Pettersson just set the SHL record in his post draft year and Boesser tore up the NHL...yeah they suck.

Montreal, Ottawa, Carolina, Columbus, New Jersey, New York Islanders, New York Rangers, Chicago, Minnesota, Nashville, Arizona, Calgary, Vancouver, Vegas.

I'd say about half of the teams in the NHL he'd be the 1C on.

Toews is not a second line centre. Well at least he wasn't when he was winning 3 cups. How many First Line Centres are 22 or younger? Matthews, McDavid, Eichel, Draisaitl (Not sure I'd list him as a 1C but he's much further ahead of Larkin at this point), Barkov, Monahan, MacKinnon etc

Fair enough, but you have a lot of players making way too much money for what they offer and you are missing about 3-5 top flight prospects you need to be ready to trend upwards and your defence is utterly devoid of talent. Outside of Green who isn't a #1 defender on any other team in the NHL but is still a capable guy.

Vancouver has 3 players on their current roster who will be part of their eventual core. Horvat, Boeser and Petterson (Maybe, still don't know if he can handle the grind of the small ice). They have Hughes as a top defensive prospect but that's it for blue chippers. They need another 2-3 years of high picks before they'll have the makings of a core that will contend for the cup. They are not at all ready and I don't think their GM has the smarts to see that. I see them trying to contend sooner rather than later and it will prevent them from reaching full potential.

TO was lucky, Shanahan saw they needed a rebuild and set it in motion and then they managed to hit home runs on a lot of their picks including getting Matthews 1OA. Dubas and Hunter were amazing at the draft and TO has depth, skill, speed and all sorts of assets to play with. Detroit needs 2-3 years of luck like that before they'll be close to being a team on the rise. Surrounding decent but not elite talent with aging vets isn't going to help this team.

He is not better than Duchene, Aho is equal to Larkin and should be a 1C either, Columbus has Dubios who has already outplayed Larkin and was a rookie last year, Hirshier is a wait and see but he's very skilled, Zibanejad is better than Larkin at this point, Toews is still a better player than Larkin, Staal just scored 40 goals, Johansen is miles ahead of Larkin, I'll give you Arizona, Monahan has scored 30 goals twice, Horvat is equal to or better than Larkin and he isn't a 1C anywhere other than Vancouver, Montreal or Detroit.

I left the Islanders and Vegas off there because your addition of those two is utterly insane.

Barzal? Are you seriously putting Larkin ahead of Barzal?
William Karlsson just had a 40+ Goal season Larkin isn't on that level, not even close yet.

Larkin is young and he'll improve but he's not nor will he ever be an elite 1C in this league, he should be a great 2C and if you try to rebuild by forcing a 2C to be your 1C, you'll be going nowhere fast.

Toronto knew Kadri was never going to be a top 1C in the league so they went with a true rebuild and got Matthews.

Detroit needs an elite Centre and a couple of top D prospects before they'll be ready to make that upward swing.

I hear you and I'm not saying he's a bad player, I think he's very good, I also think he's never going to be a true 1C. Forcing that mantel on him and jumping the gun on a rebuild will damage his development and stall out the rebuild.