Just because scoring is at a premium doesn't mean DFD are any less valuable, the package you suggested gets you 3rd pair defenceman not top pair Ds

Fair, but why then are teams clamouring for fast skating puck movers for the back end? Also why do forwards who score get paid more than defensive defenceman?

Bobby Ryan is a bad contract for a player that looked like he was going to be a star after scoring 4 straight 30+ goal seasons. This is a poor example, you aren't stupid and you understand there are outliers in everything and bad contracts are just that.

Bobby Ryan makes more the Sasha Barkov. According to your logic that makes Ryan better than Barkov.

Manson is not the guy that goes out and gets you points, that's not the role he's suited for. He's a great DFD and Anaheim suffers when he's not on the ice. He has a great shot against impact when he's on the ice as teams tend to get -1 excess shots per hour from in between the faceoff dots (high danger area) during the time that Manson is on the ice. You can't say that just because he only has a career high of 37 pts that he isn't worth what Anaheim is giving him. He's worth more than 4.1

I wouldn't even pay a 1st for Manson, well maybe just a 1st, but not a player plus a first. Manson is a good defenseman but there is no guarantee that he'd be as good in a different system or with different partners. The point of this is more to figure out why people are so nuts for defensive defenseman right now.

Josh Manson makes 4.1 million a year which is fair for what he contributes. Nylander is worth at least 6.5 million for what he contributes to the team. That is a gulf of about 2/3rds. Teams value scoring more than defensive defenseman, mainly because the difference between the best defensive defenceman and an average one is very small. The difference between the best offensive players and average ones is far greater.

Fair, but why then are teams clamouring for fast skating puck movers for the back end? Also why do forwards who score get paid more than defensive defenceman?

Same reason a DH who hits .240 with 35 HR gets paid more than a defensive whiz that hits .285 with little power. Supply and demad. But that defensive whiz prevents runs from being scored which is just asvaluable. It’s just not sexy or put butts in the seats. Remember the add campaign “Chicks dig the long ball”?

But there isan old adage....defense wins championships. And another specific to hockey...build from the net out.

Outside of Gretzky’s Oilers how many defensive poor teams have found playoff success?

Milan Lucic makes more than many players better than him. This includes guys like Arvidsson, Kadri, Barkov, and many, many more. It's a load of s**t to say that he's better than them

I wouldn't even pay a 1st for Manson, well maybe just a 1st, but not a player plus a first. Manson is a good defenseman but there is no guarantee that he'd be as good in a different system or with different partners. The point of this is more to figure out why people are so nuts for defensive defenseman right now.

Yeah but saying salary = skill is an awful argument. There's no shortage of skilled top 6 RWs in the NHL but top pair shutdown, cost controlled RHDs are very valuable and come at a premium. All of Manson's advanced numbers, and the eye test, point to him being a top pairing dman.

Pittsburgh did it back to back, and before you say it, yes Pittsburgh had a better defense in year two than in year 1 but when Letang was hurt the Pens defence was paper thin, fortunately they had a team defence strategy that made them win.

Defence may win championships but one that that definitely doesn't win championships is teams that can't score. Look how amazing the Flames defence was supposed to be last season or Carolina's every year and yet they haven't been playoff teams.

Manson will not come cheaply with that contract. That is a player on a great contract/term and no Manson is not a number One D-man but the Ducks would want more then your proposed deal. I wouldn't give up Kappy but that is what the Ducks would ask for.

Pittsburgh also has 2 generational talents, Phil Kessel, a good coach, and good depth scoring. Thats why they were able to go back to back.

Power play points are easier, and can be somewhat arbitrary. In a 31 team league, the 31 right handed defensemen with the most even strength points should be considered#1 RHD, right?

If you can't get last year's #30 for Nylander, you're probably not getting #8 for Johnsson.

http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?report=skaterpoints&reportType=season&seasonFrom=20172018&seasonTo=20172018&gameType=2&leftyOrRighty=R&position=D&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,1&sort=evPoints,points

That was a pretty impressive season he had, and you are right the trade I proposed wasn't at all fair. The point I am trying to make though is that, a defensive defenseman is not worth Nylander because offense is more valuable than anything else. All the arguments in the world get lost when you just look at what teams pay the most for. If defensive defenseman where worth the same as a player like Nylander, then Manson would be making 6.5 million a year.

That was a pretty impressive season he had, and you are right the trade I proposed wasn't at all fair. The point I am trying to make though is that, a defensive defenseman is not worth Nylander because offense is more valuable than anything else. All the arguments in the world get lost when you just look at what teams pay the most for. If defensive defenseman where worth the same as a player like Nylander, then Manson would be making 6.5 million a year.

Why is Manson a defensive defenseman? Because he can play defense? He had the 3rd-most 5v5 pts among RD last year. I understand your argument about the age difference, but I think you're underestimating Manson here.

He was one of several options I could have used. I figured he cause less hate to be thrown my way.

One thing though that never was answered in this entire post is this. If these type of defenseman that everyone wants to trade Nylander for are so valuable, why do they all make less than 4.5 million a year?

People will say Pesce is more valuable than Nylander and then pay Nylander 7 million plus while the other guy gets under 4.5 and that is a fair deal.

Offense is worth more than defence from a salary perspective and yet people are on here saying these guys are worth so much more in a trade. That doesn't make any sense.

He was one of several options I could have used. I figured he cause less hate to be thrown my way.

One thing though that never was answered in this entire post is this. If these type of defenseman that everyone wants to trade Nylander for are so valuable, why do they all make less than 4.5 million a year?

People will say Pesce is more valuable than Nylander and then pay Nylander 7 million plus while the other guy gets under 4.5 and that is a fair deal.

Offense is worth more than defence from a salary perspective and yet people are on here saying these guys are worth so much more in a trade. That doesn't make any sense.

That's another issue that I have with how people look at situations like this. Fans look at the past couple of seasons and say "you're a 60 point winger, you don't deserve close to as much money as you think." That's somewhat fair but try to look at it from the point of view of the player. He is saying, yes I'm a 60 point winger, but I believe in myself and if I am going to sign long term, I'd like to get paid what I feel like I will be contributing. He thinks he can be a point a game player and to be honest, I don't think that's even that unlikely. He's going to have a tonne of high level talent to play with and he's super talented on his own. So its not like he's been a 60 point winger for 7 years and wants to get paid like an elite player. He hasn't even hit his prime yet.

To answer that question you would have to look at some kind of WAR stat, or something that you can compare different player types/positions with. You also have to consider that some of these guys signed contracts before they really evolved into what they currently are. Nylander doesn't fit that mold after to 60+ pt seasons to begin his career. And like you said, offense is valued over everything else when determining a player's contract. It shouldn't sound outrageous that a d-man making less could be worth more than a forward making more.