Quoting: tomato43
I don't even know why we are talking about luke schenn. He has nothing to do with this trade. He never showed had the promise that Chabot has shown in his short pro career. Schenn was a mistake that should have never been elevated to the NHL so fast or picked so high in the draft.
Tomas Chabot is a bonifide Stud and was developed properly in the AHL and has elevated his game in the NHL and will be a as of this moment is a highly valued asset. Brady Tkachuk was a highly touted prospect just selected 4th overall. He is excelling in his so far short NHL career with 8 points in 8 games. He will most likely develop into a Nylander type player in the future. The Senators will likely end up in the bottom 7 of the league. There second rounder will be a high second rounder. The chances of getting an NHL player out of a late first round pick and a high second round pick are basically the same. You say the Sens getting an" unconditional first round" when they don't have one is somehow substantial. You seem to think the Toronto "unconditional first" has a chance at being a high pick. Its at bast going to be a 25-31 pick. it essentially has the same value as a high second round pick. Swapping a high second rounder for a low first rounder is of little benefit to the Sens. and on top of that you give Toronto an additional pick.
Jake Gardiner is a good defense man. The reality of the situation is he is 28 years old and a soon to be a costly free agent. Who will absolutely not stay with the senators. Why would they want a rental player when they are not going to be able to resign him if they wanted to, and wont need his services to compete in the playoffs this year. Throwing in jake into a trade has almost 0 net benefit for the sens in the long term. They could deal him again to a playoff team and get some good assets but why would they even need to do that they could just have traded chabot or tkachuk to another team and gotten more without the extra step of giving Toronto exactly what they need first. Why would they go out of there way to give toronto young cost effective future star players.
Let me break it down more simply since you seem to be a little slow.
Toronto Receives.
young stud 4th overall pick Tkachuk
young stud 21 yea old defense man Chabot
high second round pick
low second round pick
Ottawa gets
Star player Nylander
a slightly higher pick than there second they swapped for.
In the overall Ottawa doesn't even get Gardiner cause he walked out the door at the end of the season laughing at the moron who traded for him when they aren't a playoff team. The cheap as **** owner who lost Karlsson because he wouldn't pay him inst going to pay Gardiner what hes worth, and Gardiner inst going to through the latter half of his career playing for a dumpster fire.
As for the second trade why would SJ want Marleau? Are all the butterfly's in there stomach from there old franchise player coming back for one last lap going to be enough to make up for the cap space they don't have for an aging vet they don't need? Don't you think they might want that cap space for more important things like signing Karlsson to a big ******* contract. And you throw in Braun like hes some piece of trash and not a top 4 RD at a reasonable price for this year and the next. and why not give up there best prospect to while your at it, sure. its not like highly skilled rhd prospects aren't one of the most valuable assets around. (possible attitude issues aside). Ottawa couldn't get them to include him or any other good prospects into the trade for Erik Karlsson and you think you gonna get a a top 4 rhd and a top rhd prospect for a couple of seconds and Marleau?
We would probably have to send them the two seconds just to take on Marleaus contract.
put down the homer goggles and realize your proposal was garbage.
It's actually comical that you can be so triggered over a hockey discussion. News flash, champ: there's no prize money for being the biggest douchebag of the day. So much for Cap 'friendly'.
The Schenn reference is indicative of one very critical factor: perceived organizational value. Now read slowly here: Schenn was also considered untouchable at the time, so calling any player untouchable after less than 100 games is about as stupid as calling a rookie with under ten games untouchable. That, and that alone, is my point. And, you helped me make it. Burke and co. were wrong about Schenn, because they could have traded him and their pick for OEL. Love KAdri, but a franchise D over a 3C all damn day.
It's not my intellectual obligation nor my intention to compare Schenn to Chabot in terms of skill . That's entirely irrelevant to the argument. In this case the conventions of logic dictate that the premise itself must be substantiated, being that the perceptions of both players' value to their respective clubs are /were similar. I have only pointed to the history which verifies as much. Declaring any player untouchable without a significant body of work to back it up is idiotic. Neither Chabot nor Brady Tkachuk have established anything close to untouchable status. Even the inept management of the Sens must realize that much. But by all means, go there at your own peril.
I've already conceded that the value of the picks could stand to be re-thought. However, Gardiner has tremendous value and OTT would absolutely be able to cash in closer to the deadline.
D-men are already dropping like flies this season and teams looking to contend would line up to trade for a 50-point+ offensive defenseman who can QB the power
play... do you not think there are at least ten teams who would give up a first and a prospect for Gardiner's services??? Seriously??? and in terms of his defense, he's been rock solid this year, but you'd have to watch a little hockey and actually know what youre looking at to make that determination. Clearly, you either havent or dont know what youre looking at. Hes been very responsible.
Even this week it has been discussed that Marleau may very well finish his career where it started, either and if Doug Wilson can get him for 5 M a year, and recapture some draft picks --clearly, you havent bothered to check, but they have no first this year or next, a FLA 2nd, a 3 and no 4th -- a transaction like that would help. Admittedly, I miscalculated re: salary as Mekley's money doesnt factor. My bad there. That said, adding a couple 2nd round picks helps them tremendously, and since a cup run could be in their grasp this year (they're tops in the Pacific) Marleau at 5M is an asset all day long if they can make the math work.
As far as Braun goes, a 4M dollar so-called top 4 D with 4 points at the quarter turn isn't an asset, he's a liability. Hes also 31 and he costs them 3.8 next year as well. That's not a good return for a defender on pace for well under 20 points on the year. Almost 4 million for a shot-blocker with a career PDO of 92 and you think he'll be missed? Disagree. I think SJS has the depth to cover those points and maybe even rgenerate a little more possession time.
Anyway, those are my closing arguments. I've admitted where my rationale was in need of improvement and made the only case I care to make. All youve proven is youre easily triggered, overly opinionated and not worth replying to any further.