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ing Refs That was a ing Handpass

May 15, 2019 at 11:27 p.m.
#26
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Quoting: rja40
Bay area versus Boston Harbor area has a lot more t.v. sets than Raleigh and St. Louis. It's a common argument with plausibility, but I just find it hard to believe that there would be league-official collusion. Perhaps I am naive. Terrible non-call though nonetheless.


75% of the population in the bay area has no idea who the Sharks are. Relatively small hockey market given the bay area population of 4M.
May 15, 2019 at 11:27 p.m.
#27
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Quoting: Blues4TheCup
hard to say which was worse between this and the 5 minute major


I'd go with the major. It won San Jose the whole series. Blues still have a shot to come back. That was middle of third period in game 7.
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May 15, 2019 at 11:27 p.m.
#28
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Quoting: Blues4TheCup
claerly you didnt watch it again


I watched the replay at least 10 times on my laptop
May 15, 2019 at 11:28 p.m.
#29
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When the sharks+refs make it to the final something like this is going to happen again
May 15, 2019 at 11:28 p.m.
#30
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Quoting: ChiHawk
It wasn't a clear hand pass, it's pretty clear to me after watching replays over and over, he was trying to knock down the puck to his own blade on his knees. Unless it's a clear hand pass, reversing that goal would have had people up in arms as well.


Regardless of intent, you bat the puck down and it goes to a teammate first: it's a dead play. Hand-pass. Nothing controversial about it. It's the wrong call.
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May 15, 2019 at 11:29 p.m.
#31
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Quoting: rja40
And you (or the refs) can clearly support this assessment how?


Show me how you can clearly support this was an intentional hand pass....intent is the key word. There was no intent. The league won't reverse that call. Hard way to lose and ****ty way to win but that's hockey. If both teams had a opportunity at the puck, it's not a pass.
May 15, 2019 at 11:29 p.m.
#32
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I made a post back in the first round game 6 caps vs cane that the refs were rigging the game. They disallowed a goal that ovi scores that was clearly a goal. I never saw a game impacted that bad by the refs in my life. Shortly after the sharks directly benefitted form 3 (including tonight) calls. Boston Macavoy got a 2 minute illegal check to the head penalty. There’s been soo many terrible calls that ruined the playoffs for me. I honestly have lost interest in the playoffs this year. Not to mention the rigged nhl draft where to 2 worst teams pick 4and 5th overall ha
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May 15, 2019 at 11:29 p.m.
#33
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Quoting: ChiHawk
75% of the population in the bay area has no idea who the Sharks are. Relatively small hockey market given the bay area population of 4M.


25% of 4 million is still a million t.v. sets. That's a substantial number.
May 15, 2019 at 11:30 p.m.
#34
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Quoting: PuckLuck_77
Regardless of intent, you bat the puck down and it goes to a teammate first: it's a dead play. Hand-pass. Nothing controversial about it. It's the wrong call.


Incorrect, it wasn't a direct pass to the player...that's clear as day in the replay. St. Louis had as much an opportunity to the puck as SJ.
May 15, 2019 at 11:33 p.m.
#35
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Quoting: ChiHawk
It wasn't a clear hand pass, it's pretty clear to me after watching replays over and over, he was trying to knock down the puck to his own blade on his knees. Unless it's a clear hand pass, reversing that goal would have had people up in arms as well.


I don't think that intent has anything to do with it. I call seeing several instances during the regular season when an offensive player on the power play reached up over his head and swung his hand to hit the puck to keep it from going over and behind him to permit a short-handed breakaway in the other direction; that prevented any players on his team from touching the puck whether it was sent in their direction or not. In fact, everybody on the ice realized this and defensive players would refuse to touch the puck to allow time on the penalty to run down, forcing an offensive player to do so.
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May 15, 2019 at 11:34 p.m.
#36
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Quoting: ChiHawk
Show me how you can clearly support this was an intentional hand pass....intent is the key word. There was no intent. The league won't reverse that call. Hard way to lose and ****ty way to win but that's hockey.


I don't have to show intent. That burden of proof is on you due to the rule. Intent isn't a component of the rule anyhow, so your interest in intent is irrelevant. The rule clearly states when the puck is moved from the hand of a player to another teammate, it is blown dead unless played by a member of the opposing team. No need to for anyone (refs included) to have to show it was intentional, unintentional, accidental, or any other adverb. The rule is clear. The four guys getting paid to not miss it, missed it. It's really that black and white.
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May 15, 2019 at 11:35 p.m.
#37
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Quoting: rja40
25% of 4 million is still a million t.v. sets. That's a substantial number.


I believe there are some bad calls, and either way the refs would have called this one would have ended up in controversy but I'm not going to buy into a narrative that the refs are rigging the games. You can probably go back every year over the last 10 and make a case for that if you pick nits.
May 15, 2019 at 11:36 p.m.
#38
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Quoting: ChiHawk
Did his hand slapping the puck give a clear advantage to the goal...the answer is no. Was he intentionally passing the puck or slapping it down....the answer is too hard to say.


Slapping the puck gave it momentum to land in front of a Sharks player so yes it did give an advantage.
Besides, it doesn't matter if it's intentional or not(which in this case it actually is), a hand pass is a hand pass so by rule, puck should have been blown dead and face off should have been out of the zone.
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May 15, 2019 at 11:37 p.m.
#39
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Quoting: ChiHawk
I believe there are some bad calls, and either way the refs would have called this one would have ended up in controversy but I'm not going to buy into a narrative that the refs are rigging the games. You can probably go back every year over the last 10 and make a case for that if you pick nits.


I agree, which is what I stated above. I don't think it occurs, but I could be naive.
May 15, 2019 at 11:38 p.m.
#40
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Quoting: rja40
I'd go with the major. It won San Jose the whole series. Blues still have a shot to come back. That was middle of third period in game 7.


I'd say this one was worse as it was the game winning goal in overtime. While the major was terrible, you should never give up 4 power play goals. This was truly the game deciding goal.
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May 15, 2019 at 11:38 p.m.
#41
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Quoting: rja40
I don't have to show intent. That burden of proof is on you due to the rule. Intent isn't a component of the rule anyhow, so your interest in intent is irrelevant. The rule clearly states when the puck is moved from the hand of a player to another teammate, it is blown dead unless played by a member of the opposing team. No need to for anyone (refs included) to have to show it was intentional, unintentional, accidental, or any other adverb. The rule is clear. The four guys getting paid to not miss it, missed it. It's really that black and white.


Wrong; Rule 618 (b) clearly states....
A player or goalkeeper shall not be allowed to “bat” the puck in the air, or push it along the ice with his hand, directly to a teammate unless the “hand pass” has been initiated and completed in his defending zone

I know it's not what you want to hear, but intent means everything aka the word DIRECTLY
May 15, 2019 at 11:40 p.m.
#42
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Quoting: ChiHawk
Incorrect, it wasn't a direct pass to the player...that's clear as day in the replay. St. Louis had as much an opportunity to the puck as SJ.


It was batted toward his teammate. But again, regardless of intent, it should be blown dead. If I bat the puck directly in front of me to play it myself and a teammate plays it instead, it's a dead play
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May 15, 2019 at 11:42 p.m.
#43
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Quoting: Chopper02
It was batted toward his teammate. But again, regardless of intent, it should be blown dead. If I bat the puck directly in front of me to play it myself and a teammate plays it instead, it's a dead play


That's not the rule. Read rule 618 (b)...it has to be passed directly. It wasn't. Both teams had the opportunity to get the puck and the player clearly was trying to bat it down to his own blade.
May 15, 2019 at 11:44 p.m.
#44
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Quoting: ChiHawk
Wrong; Rule 618 (b) clearly states....
A player or goalkeeper shall not be allowed to “bat” the puck in the air, or push it along the ice with his hand, directly to a teammate unless the “hand pass” has been initiated and completed in his defending zone

I know it's not what you want to hear, but intent means everything aka the word DIRECTLY


"Directly" simply means it has to be touched directly by your teammate. It doesnt matter whether you intended to play it or not. Why do you think that when players bat pucks down in the neutral zone with their hands that most of the time players don't touch it? It's because it would be blown dead because they are directly touching the puck after a teammate bats it with their hand.
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May 15, 2019 at 11:45 p.m.
#45
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Quoting: ChiHawk
Read the rule, it has to be passed DIRECTLY is the exact the language in the rule....it wasn't. So before you call someone "stupid" try reading the rule. The refs were in a pickle on the decision, but it was clear this was not directly to a teammate so taking away a game winning goal would have been just as controversial.

Read the rule; Rule 618 (b)


Okay so players can just swat the puck in the general direction of their teammates and it’s legal is what you saying? And define directly? I mean he swatted the puck in the general area of his teammate? Directly is a broad statement. Use your brain high stick and a hand pass are similar rules with the exception of the d zone hand pass. He swatted the puck towards his guy and they won the game bc of it. Terrible call
May 15, 2019 at 11:45 p.m.
#46
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Quoting: ChiHawk
Wrong; Rule 618 (b) clearly states....
A player or goalkeeper shall not be allowed to “bat” the puck in the air, or push it along the ice with his hand, directly to a teammate unless the “hand pass” has been initiated and completed in his defending zone

I know it's not what you want to hear, but intent means everything aka the word DIRECTLY


I appreciate your bulldoggedness is this argument, and I don't think you realize you just supporting what everyone else on here is saying. You are correct that "DIRECTLY" comes into play (which is not intent, mind you). The puck exited a Shark's players hand and went "directly" from his hand to a teammates stick and not an opposing player's stick, skate, etc. If you argue no intent, it is what you just quoted...a "bat." If you argue intent, it is a "push." Whether it was a bat or a push is irrelevant due to the whole idea that the puck is moved in some manner. What is relevant to this ruling is that the puck went from a hand to a teammate "directly." Whistle blown. No, second pass to goal scorer. No goal then scored on that play.
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May 15, 2019 at 11:45 p.m.
#47
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Actually, apologize, that was USA Hockey's rule.

NHL hockey rule is even more descriptive; Rule 67
67.1 Handling Puck - A player shall be permitted to stop or “bat” a puck in the air with his open hand, or push it along the ice with his hand, and the play shall not be stopped unless, in the opinion of the Referee, he has deliberately directed the puck to a teammate in any zone other than the defending zone, in which case the play shall be stopped and a face-off conducted (see Rule 79 – Hand Pass). Play will not be stopped for any hand pass by players in their own defending zone.

INTENT has everything to do with this call. Guys, you're all ganging up on me saying you know the rule and clearly the rule says differently. There is NO WAY, the refs can reverse a game winning goal saying the player was deliberately directing the puck to a teammate. Only a homer or someone not understanding the hockey rules would suggest the refs blew the call.
May 15, 2019 at 11:46 p.m.
#48
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Quoting: ChiHawk
That's not the rule. Read rule 618 (b)...it has to be passed directly. It wasn't. Both teams had the opportunity to get the puck and the player clearly was trying to bat it down to his own blade.


That's not the rule. Again, directly means it cant be directly touched by your teammate if you bat it down. And regardless, if you look at the replay, who is he batting it to? He's batting the puck towards his teammate which meana by your definition he is batting it directly to him.
May 15, 2019 at 11:46 p.m.
#49
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Quoting: rja40
I appreciate your bulldoggedness is this argument, and I don't think you realize you just supporting what everyone else on here is saying. You are correct that "DIRECTLY" comes into play (which is not intent, mind you). The puck exited a Shark's players hand and went "directly" from his hand to a teammates stick and not an opposing player's stick, skate, etc. If you argue no intent, it is what you just quoted...a "bat." If you argue intent, it is a "push." Whether it was a bat or a push is irrelevant due to the whole idea that the puck is moved in some manner. What is relevant to this ruling is that the puck went from a hand to a teammate "directly." Whistle blown. No, second pass to goal scorer. No goal then scored on that play.


See 67.1, I actually was referencing incorrectly USA hockey's rule. NHL's rule is much more descriptive. See above
May 15, 2019 at 11:47 p.m.
#50
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Quoting: Chopper02
That's not the rule. Again, directly means it cant be directly touched by your teammate if you bat it down. And regardless, if you look at the replay, who is he batting it to? He's batting the puck towards his teammate which meana by your definition he is batting it directly to him.


Wrong, see Rule 67.1 is states deliberately directing no way can anyone here make a case that happened. Refs are turning over a game winning goal on a wild guess of intent.
 
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