One possible route Tampa could take if they wanted to trade Cirelli and Cernak. Jarnkrok and Donato help replace some of the offensive losses. I don't think Tampa will move Cirelli but they may consider it for the right deal.

Only problem is we'd still have the same problem we have now: we'd be forced to give up a defenseman that we don't want to lose in the expansion draft. Seems like a high price as well. Dumba and maybe a small add like Donato is fair for Cirelli, but then we're retaining on Dumba, retaining on Donato, giving up the 9th overall pick, and the WHL player of the year in Beckman for... Cernak Johnson and a 3rd? No thanks.

Maybe the 1st is too much, but Tampa likely doesn't move Cirelli unless a team really gives them an offer they can't resist.

Minnesota could also protect 4 dmen in this scenario(Suter, Brodin, Spurgeon and Cernak), or likely cut a deal with Seattle not to take the 4th dman if the Wild choose the 7-3 route.

But then we're forced to expose Ek, who I'd rather not expose since we need more young centers, not less. I'd also rather not cut a deal, we're seeing why that's a bad idea with Tuch lighting up the playoffs... All of this can be solved by not trading for Cernak and using Addison to eventually replace Dumba in the top 4.



I mean they have around $5M in cap space and have to sign Cirelli, Sergachev, and Cernak. They aren't really in a position to hold out for an offer they can't refuse. If this is the price, I'd rather we look elsewhere.

Minnesota declines, that's entirely too steep of a price.

They will move out enough to bridge Cirelli and Serg no problem with Cernak being the only question most likely. What about downgrading the Minnesota 1st to a 2nd instead? Tampa won't be trading either of the 2 big rfas without either an overpayment or a very good need for need offer.

Wild don't need Johnson if they're getting Cirelli. If you're including Johnson as a cap dump then you need to pay us to take him as a cap dump.
Take out Cernak, he's not needed.
The first is absolutely off the table, especially if Dumba is included, take that out.
Honestly if Dumba is the centerpiece, Beckman is off the table as well.

Something around Dumba for Cirelli, sure. Minor adds here or there. If you want us to take Johnson, add your '21 1st, then add some more.

EDIT: I just noticed you have us retaining salary too, lol

You realize that the only big contract without a full blown NTC is Killorn, right? So they have to get their players to waive their no trade clause in order to trade them to any team. Even Killorn has a partial NTC. Say they find a team to trade Killorn to, they still only have $9M in space to sign Sergachev, Cirelli, and Cernak. Sergachev should be around $5-6M on a bridge, Cirelli around $4M, and Cernak around $4M as well. They're sill $5M in cap space over the limit not to mention they have depth spots that need filling. Saying they will "move out enough to bridge Cirelli and Serg no problem" is way easier said than done.

Like I said, Tampa isn't in a position to hold out for an overpayment. If that's what they want, good luck with getting under the cap.

Johnson isn't a cap dump, and Tampa won't be trading him as such. If it's just Cirelli, then it's at least Dumba+Donato with the retention and all the other pieces would be dropped.

I said it before and I'll say it again, Dumba and a small add like Donato is fair. But the problem is Tampa can't even make that trade because it will cost them more than what signing Cirelli would cost... So Johnson(or another high cap player) almost has to be a part of the trade. But then there's the whole issue of him having a full NTC so he'd have to leave a better team who has a better chance at a cup and take a pay cut in the form of higher income tax in MN. My guess is he (and their other players) doesn't waive.

No retention on Dumba, 50% retention on Donato, and Tampa adds a 2nd.

Or we can do Dumba+'21 3rd for Cirelli.

Cernak isn't getting close to 4, 2.5 max here, nor Serg above 4.5 to 4.75. Cirelli should get around 4. Killorn and Paquette alone will be enough for those 2 no problem. Tampa doesn't want to trade them and they don't want to leave from all indications, so Tampa won't be accepting any laughable offers for either.

Yeah, I'm not interested in bending over for Tampa in their situation. I would take Cirelli on the team, but I have my concerns about him. I'm certainly not going to overpay for the pleasure to give him any kind of big contract.

No thanks, in the end they'll just keep Cirelli on the bridge and not take back 2 extra million in cap

Good luck with that, lol.

Sure, Tamps isn't a city where rfas get laughably over paid. They've kept everyone they've wanted to keep, will be no different unless Tampa gets a great offer for either. Heard the same narrative from other fans for 6 years, they havent been right once, so Tampa will take their chances.

Tampa has 5M to sign 3 forwards and 4 defensemen. Cirelli, Sergachev and Cernak, optimistically, cost around 10M, and then you still have 2 forwards and 2 defensemen, an additional 3.5M if you just fill it with league minimum players.

So 13.5M with 5M space means you need to move two of Johnson, Killorn, Gourde and Palat just to fit everyone.

Killorn can be traded to 14 teams
Johnson can't be traded without his approval
Gourde can't be traded without his approval
Palat can't be traded without his approval

So assuming Killorn is de facto one of the guys moved, you have to find one of the 14 teams he can be traded to that's willing to take on his entire contract. And honestly? You'll probably be able to. It's not a great contract, 4.5M until he's 33, but he's generally an effective 40 point player or so, I'm sure a team would be willing to pay some form of value without sending cap back.

But Johnson, Palat and Gourde? First you have to find a team willing to take them. Good luck. They're all 30-40 point players who are aging, and in Johnson and Gourde's cases, have significant term left on their contracts. In a flat cap world, you'll be hard pressed to get any value for them whatsoever with the current situation. Then you have to hope they're willing to waive for the team that's willing to take them. If those two things don't align, you could very well be stuck with them. If you're going to want to move one of them over one of your RFAs, you're going to have to find a team that they'll waive for, and likely pay that team to take them. Quite a bit.

Chances are at least one of Cirelli or Sergachev are moved, because they simply have more value than Johnson, Palat and Gourde. BUt you shouldn't expect full value back, because Tampa has zero leverage when it comes to their cap situation.

Ok, say Tampa is able to sign them to the prices you listed (which I think are extreme lowball offers, but I digress). I'll go on the low end of your offers which brings us to $11M in cap space that you need to have to get them all signed. You have $5.3M in free space next year, but only 15 players signed. With your 3 RFA's, that's at least 4 more roster spots you need to fill, so if you fill them using league minimum cap hits then at a maxmum you have $2.5M in free cap space. Say you trade Killorn, that brings you up to $6.95M in free cap space. Say you trade Paquette, that brings it to $8.6M in free cap space, but you need to replace him with a league minimum contract so we're back down to $7.9M in free cap. That's still $3.1M short so you would still have to move one of Johnson, Gourde, or Palat by forcing them to leave a fantastic team that is making it to the semifinals this year in a state with basically 0 income tax. That's a tough sell.

Lol at Gourde, Palat and Johnson being aging 30-40 point players, thanks for the laugh. You obv don't know or watch Tampa at all, it's fine. Johnson will likely be asked to waive, and given he gets a better say now where he goes vs 20 teams after next year, will likely get an increased role and is a 47.33 point per year player until this year(primarily due to less ice time), he could very well do so. Tampa will be restricted in tg be teams they can deal with which will lower his value(or Gourde's or Palat's), but none of them are a cap dump and won't be traded for nothing or added to in order to move. Tampa can also buy Johnson out if needed, but it won't come to that. Tampa is far from in as bad a spot as so many seem to think, and won't be taking any lesaee offers for Serg or Cirelli, thanks.

I've already said why Johnson waiving is very possible, and a buyout is also an option. Tampa isnt giving Cirelli any more than any of Palat, Killorn or Johnson got on their first non elc contracts, which was just less than 5% of the cap. Serg will be bridged around 4.5 as his closest bridge comparables took 4.9 and 5, and Tampa has considerable history getting their rfas to come in below market comparables. Cernak has been solid, but not overwhelming thos year. Tampa could try a short 1 or 2 year deal or a 3 year bridge in the 2 to 2.5 range. Cernak may get moved, or if a great deal for Cirelli comes in, maybe, but unlikely.

The point you're missing on getting these guys to accept bridges like they have done in the past is the cap isn't going up in future years like it has in the past. What changes for Tampa in the next 2-3 years that these guys should take huge discounts to stay? These bridge deals will line up with when Point is due a new contract and he isn't going to cost $6.75m on his next deal.

The fact that they will still get sizable increases while staying on one of the best teams in hockey with a great chance to win Cups? The fact that they know and have seen how Tampa rfas prior to them have taken solid bridge deals to keep the team’s chances as strong as possible and then get paid nicely long term is not some revelation to them. They have already indicated they have no plans to leave and will be willing to work with the team. Neither comes off as a guy who is just looking for max dollars right now to go play for a cellar dweller. The 3 year bridges would also end after Point’s next contract would have already been negotiated, and by then at least 2 of the contracts of Johnson, Palat and Gourde will be off the books. 3 years from now who knows how the team will exactly look. The cap will also have gone up by then, as the flat cap is scheduled for this year and next, and then between the Seattle expansion and the new TV deal looming, if the Cap doesn’t start to see a steady rise there are bigger problems for the viability of the league and many teams.

How about we make it simple for you. Minn offer sheets for cirelli 6m for 5 years. Take that as a baseline to start negotiations. That’s what a 1st and a 3rd, which can be 2021 on both. I think it’s those picks. Bam simple value. If you sign him you’re screwed all the way around. But let’s start his valuation there and then add pieces. How much is a top pair offensive defensemen also a right hand shot worth? And this is how valuations should go. Step on toes with offer sheets but standard value established.

How about we make it simple for you. Minn offer sheets for cirelli 6m for 5 years. Take that as a baseline to start negotiations. That’s what a 1st and a 3rd, which can be 2021 on both. I think it’s those picks. Bam simple value. If you sign him you’re screwed all the way around. But let’s start his valuation there and then add pieces. How much is a top pair offensive defensemen also a right hand shot worth? And this is how valuations should go. Step on toes with offer sheets but standard value established.