Edited Nov. 4, 2020 at 1:22 a.m.
Quoting: BlastnyFromThePastny
MacKenzie-RETIRED -> So? How does this affect his opinion? You retire and suddenly you don't know hat you're talking about?
Button-FIRED AFTER 1 SEASON AS GM -> So? Things in life have to work out perfect for you in order for your opinion to mean something? He's been a major part of NHL scouting for years. He's watched today's NHL grow from the time they were kids. He tried a management position and didn't work out.
Burke-FIRED BY THE LEAFS -> So? This is such a massive oversimplification of his career and is pretty old news.
Cherry-FIRED BY SPORTSNET -> So? Coach's Corner was one of the most watched parts of hockey for decades. We all know how much viewership means to you (Hockey Guy has how many subscribers?)
The funniest part of all this is you referring to all of these guys with huge amounts of hands on experience either reporting for or working for NHL teams. They were in the heart of what was going on. But their opinions are NOTHING compared to Shannon the Hockey Guy in his living room. This HAS to be a troll account. I mean who would pick Greg Pateryn?
Quoting: Campabee
So because they are retired or fired means they forgot everything they ever knew about hockey then right!
Mackenzie - one of the most respected names in hockey whether it's the NHL or IIHF he knows his stuff.
Burke - former player former GM of several NHL teams for over 20 years won a Stanley Cup and is currently an analyst on Sportsnet. Yeah he definitely knows nothing about hockey.
Button - former player Former GM Stanley cup Champion. Again knows nothing about the sport.
Cherry - former player, former coach, multiple Stanley cup Champion knows nothing about hockey cause he was fired for his racial remarks (A firing I believe was long overdue)
BTW The average tenure for a GM in the NHL is 2-5 years.
Quoting: GregPateryn
Lets look at those names you just mentioned
MacKenzie-RETIRED
Button-FIRED AFTER 1 SEASON AS GM
Burke-FIRED BY THE LEAFS
Cherry-FIRED BY SPORTSNET
So next time you tell me about some random TV guys, check to see if you are reaching in the trash can or recycling bin
Quoting: chloewoj
i know ahahah just warning you...things can get really heated on here really fast!! have fun with it though!!
Hey so I see there’s a lot going on here - I think this list is brutal but that’s not the point anymore. Defence is a major aspect in hockey (objectively and obviously).
+/- is NOT************ a stat teams/ analytics specialists use when valuing a players defensive upside. I for one use stats (adv and regular) and seeing eye (what I see per game). But you cannot use a stat like plus minus unless there is an outlier IMO... or is that still dumb? FOR EXAMPLE:
Go look at the Carolina hurricanes roster players from 2019-2020 stats overview. You won’t see any adv stats really (using the score for example). There is clearly an outlier. There are many players above + and below - and there’s guys who are like 20+. Than you have a SINGLE player who’s +/- is negative twenty. Jake Gardiner. Every other player is a reasonable +/- or highly +. The sole player with a dramatic difference is Gardiner. I am no fan of Gardiner but that got me thinking is Gardiner really that bad... and when I searched it up - the results were not that bad - they were decent and reasonably good-average defensive stats meaning he’s not as bad as we all joke about (leafs game 7 blah, it’s all fun tho). So if I’m using plus minus I’d say Gardiner is waste, but actually their are articles from canes writers that show this is false and he’s just been unlucky as to other people’s points about +/- being affected no matter what you do. I could hit the cross bar on a wrister that beat the goalie and it bounces to center ice and slides in my empty net with the goalie pulled. I did everything right and my line mates did nothing wrong but we got a minus...
My point being you’re either a troll account or new, which isn’t a fault of your own or a slight to you, to the statistical side of hockey. I find the points you made about bob mack just stupid as he is a incredibly respected hockey view, cherry which is up for debate, burkey who is actual very smart if you listen to some of his pieces on all his work, and button who once again is a smart broadcaster and analyst = I also have viewed the hockey guy but he IS NOT a analyst. Now you can still dislike the mentioned names but their opinion is objectively better than the hockey guys as they are paid to do this job and while the hockey guy is a valuable voice and helps spread the game he is not a voice I would use in a document arguing a point.