You can beat a dead horse all you want, but you arent going to make it move. Move on and get another horse.

one guy who is basically a pens fan at that

No wonder Naz point totals fell off a cliff, look at his linemates. Would have been nice to see him get more shifts with Marner or Nylander.

Oh c'mon even you know Kappy>Vesey. Now, Vesey is a great piece at less than 1 mil, but without a doubt Kappy>Vesey.

Exactly.

did JT prop up marner or did marner prop up JT? Marner's goals didn't go up astronomically with JT, only a couple more. It's his primary assists that shot through the roof. Notably, his ice time went up as well, about 3 minutes per game on average

if the argument is that JT made marner a better player and unlocked his ability to do more ridiculous stuff to set up goals (bc JT is an amazing finisher), then idk how that's bad

if we don't sign JT and marner is a career 70 pointer, you think that's better? I'd rather him challenge for 100p every year playing with JT than be a meh 70 pointer

Agree with all of this. My point from day 1 and will be is the signing of John Tavares set the standard for the Leafs contracts, especially MARNER. Yes they both made each other better. But I have a sneaky suspicion that even if JT doesn’t sign here, Mathews and Marner form an incredible duo. Yes, John Tavares effected Marner getting 10.89mil. Can we pls just agree on that. That’s all I’ve ever been trying to say.

vesey seems to score a lot more. he played about 13min per game in his rookie year, 16g 11a, 14m the next year, 17g 11a, 16m the next year with 17g 18a - then in buffalo he got stuck playing 13m a night again, still put up 9g 20p with basically zero powerplay time, for whatever reason (23 seconds per game on average down from 2m averages before)

kappy had one seasons playing with a mix of matthews tavares and kadri, he had 20g and more secondary assists than primary assists

even this year, playing a quarter of his time with matthews/tavares/marner etc. he only mustered up 13g and 23 assists, with a third of his overall points being secondary assists and playing a lot more than vesey did

the main reason for the points differences between kappy/vesey are basically secondary assists. goals and primary assists they are relatively similar, and vesey has played on much worse teams with much worse players

kappy is the more established player ofc but goddamn I'm curious to see how vesey plays now, with an actual good team >: )

acquiring good players is bad because they elevate everybody around them? that's bad? I genuinely don't understand how that could possibly be a negative. If marner gets $7.5M and scores 70 points vs. marner making 10.8M and potentially scoring 110 points, how is the latter scenario not better?

Ok, they are more similar than I thought. Still Kappy>Vesey but I am kind of suprised at how close they are.

Fine, whatever dude. I must hate the Leafs.

Nope, Mcdavid set the bar for Matthews and Matthews for marner. Ones a ufa and the others were rfa.

I liked how he played. Very good at stripping pucks. Just as his offence was though... not thinking the game enough to have it show up well on advanced stats.

Had this exact discussion with him before... with almost the same response as yours lol.

You can say JT got marner to 94 points but it’s not something you can prove or disprove.

The part I disagree with is Matthews and marner pointing to JT for their contracts.

Matthews pointed to Mcdavid and marner to Matthews.

Leafs bias isn't real, it's called Favorite team bias, everyone has it

Well then, what’d you think is the missing piece? This team has elite offence, they have grit. I feel they are a solid 4D away from contending.

He had the potential to score 100+ points but he hasn’t done it yet!

Why are you low on Vesey? The guy doesn’t have much skill but he brings grit. Will win a lot of puck battles. Barabanov will become a similar player to Sheary. Small but feisty who is effective on the forecheck.

I just wanted to showcase the possibilities the Leafs would have if they saved money on the Marner contract.

Fair criticism, I just feel most people would consider the Leafs contenders if they didn’t give Marner 11 Million.

I feel people are not so confident in Holl because he’s only played at a high level for 1 season. If he keeps it up, he will not only establish himself as a serviceable top 4 D, but people will start to consider the Leafs contenders.

90something isnt enough

How about if they didn't just retain on Kessel for forever