SalarySwishSalarySwish
Forums/Armchair-GM

Help Ducks Fans-read description for my thoughts

Created by: Tyler_A10
Team: 2021-22 Chicago Blackhawks
Initial Creation Date: May 5, 2021
Published: May 5, 2021
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Description
I'm trying to come up with a fair deal that helps both sides, but I do need to start with some context for the ducks
1. The Anaheim Ducks have the worst offense in hockey, no doubt, they need any scoring in the worst way
2. They want to give the kids opportunities, but they don't want to rush their ice time before theyre ready for it
3. The likely want to give Haydn Fleury more opportunity to show he can be a top 4 defenseman of the future.
4. It seems unlikely that with the direction of the organization, Hampus Lindholm will want to stick around after his contract expires in 2022, he will be a UFA that summer
For the Blackhawks
1.They need a top pairing defenseman in the worst way, specifically one who is a two way left handed guy to play alongside their top young defensive player, Adam Boqvist.
2. Dylan Strome needs a new opportunity
3. Nikita Zadorov's time in the organization has ran out

Here's why this deal makes sense for each team IMO
1. The left side on D for Anaheim when everyone is healthy is Cam Fowler, Hampus Lindholm and Haydn Fleury. This leaves Fleury exactly where he was before the trade to Anaheim, without opportunity. If you move Fleury up to the second pair and slot Zadorov on the third pair in a defensive, physical, PK role, that can work for this organization
2. Dylan Strome fills the Ducks need of a stop-gap 1C. No, Dylan Strome likely will never be a top line center on a good team, maybe not even a #2C on a good team, but in order to not rush certain players, this move fits what the Ducks want. Allow Zegras, Lundestrom and others to grow into those roles, meanwhile, Strome can hold down the fort for the time being.
3. The ducks get draft capital as well with this move.
4. Ryan Miller is retiring and Subban can fill a role as an okay backup. Very inconsistent but he's always a threat to have a randomly elite game here and there.
5. They can take a swing on bringing over Max Shalunov, who doesn't have trade value, but might play for the team.

Why this deal makes sense for the Hawks (really simple)
1. Boqvist can now play with a good defenseman on his left side. Imagine what he can do when his defense partner is a quick puck mover who is steady in his own zone. Similar to how great Morgan Rielly has been with TJ Brodie being added. It took the leafs over 5 years to finally get a great defenseman for Rielly, the Hawks can solve this issue for now and the next 5 years by adding Lindholm this offseason
2. This gives allows for a change of scenery for some players and defines the roles of a few others.

What I would like to know. I want to know the value of trading for Lindholm and what it would take. I would like everyone responding this to assume that the Ducks will not be able to resign Lindholm and he will walk in FA if he is not traded. It doesn't matter to me if you think he won't get traded because this is about how valuable he is if he is traded. I also want to make it clear that I do not consider Max Shalunov to be a "prospect" or even a player with trade value. He is a pure throw-in in this deal. Shalunov is a 27-28 year old who had a great season in the KHL. On a team without much NHL regulars, Shalunov might be willing to sign and thats what this is. No risk with some potential for reward in ANA. Plus with Ryan Miller retiring, Subban can provide some value as a serviceable backup. Hes very inconsistent but at the most random times, he will have elite games.
So again, my question for Ducks fans. What would it take to move Hampus Lindholm? Do the players going back fit what you want to do? And what would be a reasonable contract extension for him once he is dealt to Chicago in this scenario.
Free Agent Signings
RESERVE LISTYEARSCAP HIT
1$925,000
RFAYEARSCAP HIT
1$1,000,000
3$1,750,000
2$2,250,000
1$1,150,000
1$1,150,000
1$750,000
UFAYEARSCAP HIT
3$4,000,000
1$1,250,000
Trades
1.
CHI
    Expansion Draft Selection
    2.
    CHI
    1. Lindholm, Hampus
    2. 2021 2nd round pick (ANA)
    Additional Details:
    Pick 33 in 2021 NHL Draft (Arizona forfeits first and Buffalo has pick 32)
    ANA
    1. Shalunov, Maxim [Reserve List]
    2. Strome, Dylan
    3. Subban, Malcolm
    4. Zadorov, Nikita [RFA Rights]
    5. 2021 1st round pick (CHI)
    6. 2022 3rd round pick (CHI)
    Additional Details:
    12th overall pick in 2021 NHL Draft (essentially Ducks move up 21 picks in this years draft and get a third next year too)
    3.
    CHI
    1. 2022 3rd round pick (WPG)
    WPG
    1. Keith, Duncan ($2,250,000 retained)
    Additional Details:
    One of the few places Keith might waive his NMC for as he is from Winnipeg. I like the fit, especially if they lose Stanley to Seattle. Its low risk and relatively cheap. Keith still has talent and could be far more effective in a reduced role.
    Retained Salary Transactions
    DraftRound 1Round 2Round 3Round 4Round 5Round 6Round 7
    2021
    Logo of the CHI
    Logo of the VGK
    Logo of the ANA
    Logo of the CHI
    Logo of the VAN
    Logo of the CHI
    Logo of the CHI
    Logo of the FLA
    2022
    Logo of the CHI
    Logo of the CHI
    Logo of the VGK
    Logo of the WPG
    Logo of the CHI
    Logo of the CHI
    Logo of the CHI
    2023
    Logo of the CHI
    Logo of the CHI
    Logo of the CHI
    Logo of the CHI
    Logo of the CHI
    Logo of the CHI
    Logo of the CHI
    ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
    26$81,500,000$60,542,825$452,439$5,382,500$20,957,175

    Roster

    Left WingCentreRight Wing
    Logo of the Chicago Blackhawks
    $3,700,000$3,700,000
    LW, RW
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the Chicago Blackhawks
    $10,500,000$10,500,000
    C
    NMC
    UFA - 2
    Logo of the Chicago Blackhawks
    $1,750,000$1,750,000
    LW
    UFA - 3
    Logo of the Chicago Blackhawks
    $6,400,000$6,400,000
    LW, RW
    UFA - 2
    Logo of the Chicago Blackhawks
    $925,000$925,000 (Performance Bonus$2,500,000$2M)
    C, RW
    RFA - 1
    Logo of the Chicago Blackhawks
    $2,625,000$2,625,000
    RW
    NMC
    UFA - 2
    Logo of the Chicago Blackhawks
    $842,500$842,500 (Performance Bonus$32,500$32K)
    LW, C, RW
    RFA - 1
    Logo of the Chicago Blackhawks
    $2,250,000$2,250,000
    C, LW
    UFA - 2
    Logo of the Chicago Blackhawks
    $1,150,000$1,150,000
    RW, LW
    RFA - 1
    Logo of the Chicago Blackhawks
    $925,000$925,000
    C
    RFA - 2
    Logo of the Chicago Blackhawks
    $1,000,000$1,000,000
    C
    UFA - 2
    Logo of the Chicago Blackhawks
    $1,000,000$1,000,000
    RW, C
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the Chicago Blackhawks
    $912,500$912,500
    LW, RW
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the Chicago Blackhawks
    $1,150,000$1,150,000
    C, RW
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the Chicago Blackhawks
    $3,500,000$3,500,000
    RW, LW
    UFA - 2
    Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
    Logo of the Anaheim Ducks
    $2,602,778$2,602,778
    LD
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the Chicago Blackhawks
    $894,167$894,167 (Performance Bonus$850,000$850K)
    RD
    RFA - 1
    $4,000,000$4,000,000
    G
    UFA - 4
    Logo of the Chicago Blackhawks
    $925,000$925,000 (Performance Bonus$850,000$850K)
    LD
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the Chicago Blackhawks
    $3,850,000$3,850,000
    RD
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the Chicago Blackhawks
    $800,000$800,000
    G
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the Chicago Blackhawks
    $863,333$863,333 (Performance Bonus$300,000$300K)
    LD
    UFA - 2
    $1,250,000$1,250,000
    RD
    UFA - 3
    Logo of the Chicago Blackhawks
    $1,000,000$1,000,000
    G
    UFA - 1
    Logo of the Chicago Blackhawks
    $1,350,000$1,350,000
    LD
    RFA - 3
    Logo of the Chicago Blackhawks
    $925,000$925,000 (Performance Bonus$850,000$850K)
    RD
    RFA - 2
    ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
    Logo of the Chicago Blackhawks
    $6,875,000$6,875,000
    RD
    NMC
    UFA - 3
    Logo of the Chicago Blackhawks
    $3,900,000$3,900,000
    C, RW
    UFA - 1

    Embed Code

    • To display this team on another website or blog, add this iFrame to the appropriate page
    • Customize the height attribute in the iFrame code below to fit your website appropriately. Minimum recommended: 400px.

    Text-Embed

    Click to Highlight
    May 5, 2021 at 6:37 p.m.
    #1
    Avatar of the user
    Joined: Jul. 2020
    Posts: 16,058
    Likes: 7,152
    No chance Winnipeg gives up positive assets to get stuck with Keith's cap hit, even with retention.
    May 5, 2021 at 6:38 p.m.
    #2
    Avatar of the user
    Joined: Jul. 2020
    Posts: 16,058
    Likes: 7,152
    Double post
    May 5, 2021 at 6:42 p.m.
    #3
    Hockey Fan13
    Avatar of the user
    Joined: Oct. 2019
    Posts: 3,938
    Likes: 2,499
    The guy you want to talk to is @OldNYIfan.
    OldNYIfan and Tyler_A10 liked this.
    May 5, 2021 at 6:47 p.m.
    #4
    Once a Kings Fan Too
    Avatar of the user
    Joined: Jun. 2018
    Posts: 40,849
    Likes: 25,670
    Your premise is entirely reasonable. Since you're talking about 2021 draft picks, I'll assume that this exchange occurs before the expansion draft, too. (By the way, you're a little off about the draft order. Buffalo will have the first overall pick in each round following the first, so they'll have pick #33 -- don't forget that Seattle comes into the league -- so Anaheim will probably have pick #34; Arizona will probably share the 12 and 13 slots between the two of you.)

    Moving up that far for a one-year rental is within the range of Hampus' value, although it's at the low end of that range. I and I'm sure a lot of my fellow Anaheim adherents would like to get more, but with his injury history, I'm not sure we will. However, the additional pieces you've included are virtually worthless to us. We have a backup goalie who seems entirely capable while unlikely to be selected by Seattle, and we can fill the #3 LD slot from within. But the third might be sufficient additional ammunition to make the deal work.
    Tyler_A10 and OutCold13 liked this.
    May 5, 2021 at 6:48 p.m.
    #5
    Once a Kings Fan Too
    Avatar of the user
    Joined: Jun. 2018
    Posts: 40,849
    Likes: 25,670
    Quoting: OutCold13
    The guy you want to talk to is OldNYIfan.


    Ha, ha! Typing as you wrote!!
    OutCold13 liked this.
    May 5, 2021 at 6:55 p.m.
    #6
    Thread Starter
    Avatar of the user
    Joined: Mar. 2021
    Posts: 348
    Likes: 155
    Quoting: OldNYIfan
    Your premise is entirely reasonable. Since you're talking about 2021 draft picks, I'll assume that this exchange occurs before the expansion draft, too. (By the way, you're a little off about the draft order. Buffalo will have the first overall pick in each round following the first, so they'll have pick #33 -- don't forget that Seattle comes into the league -- so Anaheim will probably have pick #34; Arizona will probably share the 12 and 13 slots between the two of you.)

    Moving up that far for a one-year rental is within the range of Hampus' value, although it's at the low end of that range. I and I'm sure a lot of my fellow Anaheim adherents would like to get more, but with his injury history, I'm not sure we will. However, the additional pieces you've included are virtually worthless to us. We have a backup goalie who seems entirely capable while unlikely to be selected by Seattle, and we can fill the #3 LD slot from within. But the third might be sufficient additional ammunition to make the deal work.


    I will say, I totally forgot about Stolarz. But I will disagree with the premise that Strome is worthless. He's inconsistent for sure, but I look at what Montreal did when they got Danault. He filled the role of stop gap #1C for many years during the rebuild and now hes a key part of their top 9. If strome gets consistent opportunity, he might just run with it. I'm not saying he'll be a star or anything, of course not, but as a buy low piece in this deal. I wouldn't call him valueless. He might just be the teams #2C or #3C when Zegras is ready to take over as the #1C and the team is ready to contend again.

    Sidenote: I did account for Seattle coming into the league. If Arizonas pick wasn't forfeited, Buffalo would have the 33rd pick in the second round, but since it is forfeited, Buffalo will have pick 32 and Anaheim will likely get pick 33.
    May 5, 2021 at 6:59 p.m.
    #7
    Thread Starter
    Avatar of the user
    Joined: Mar. 2021
    Posts: 348
    Likes: 155
    Quoting: Windjammer
    No chance Winnipeg gives up positive assets to get stuck with Keith's cap hit, even with retention.


    I wouldnt be 100% sure about that, teams seem to value him more than fans do because veteranocity. I wouldn't give up a 3rd for him but a desperate Chevy might. Winnipeg is very anti-analytics and because most of the things that prove Keith sucks are analytics, theyre a team I think would give up a pick for him.
    May 5, 2021 at 7:19 p.m.
    #8
    Avatar of the user
    Joined: Jul. 2020
    Posts: 16,058
    Likes: 7,152
    Quoting: Tyler_A10
    I wouldnt be 100% sure about that, teams seem to value him more than fans do because veteranocity. I wouldn't give up a 3rd for him but a desperate Chevy might. Winnipeg is very anti-analytics and because most of the things that prove Keith sucks are analytics, theyre a team I think would give up a pick for him.


    Well maybe if Chicago added an unprotected first or two there would be a 50/50 chance, otherwise definitely not.
    May 5, 2021 at 7:22 p.m.
    #9
    Hockey Fan13
    Avatar of the user
    Joined: Oct. 2019
    Posts: 3,938
    Likes: 2,499
    Quoting: OldNYIfan
    Your premise is entirely reasonable. Since you're talking about 2021 draft picks, I'll assume that this exchange occurs before the expansion draft, too. (By the way, you're a little off about the draft order. Buffalo will have the first overall pick in each round following the first, so they'll have pick #33 -- don't forget that Seattle comes into the league -- so Anaheim will probably have pick #34; Arizona will probably share the 12 and 13 slots between the two of you.)

    Moving up that far for a one-year rental is within the range of Hampus' value, although it's at the low end of that range. I and I'm sure a lot of my fellow Anaheim adherents would like to get more, but with his injury history, I'm not sure we will. However, the additional pieces you've included are virtually worthless to us. We have a backup goalie who seems entirely capable while unlikely to be selected by Seattle, and we can fill the #3 LD slot from within. But the third might be sufficient additional ammunition to make the deal work.


    Out of curiosity, since I'm a big JEEK fan, how does Olle Eriksson Ek look? Does he have a chance as a goalie or is he really not much of a prospect?
    May 5, 2021 at 7:22 p.m.
    #10
    Avatar of the user
    Joined: Jun. 2016
    Posts: 214
    Likes: 121
    I think I like to see what a Lindholm/Drysdale pairing can do.
    We didn’t get to see that this year due to injuries but I would imagine that is a solid top pairing.
    May 5, 2021 at 7:32 p.m.
    #11
    Roster Architect
    Avatar of the user
    Joined: Mar. 2021
    Posts: 2,643
    Likes: 909
    I think if you look at this from Anaheim's point of view, there's just no incentive in this package that you've listed. Really the only interesting piece is the 1st round pick and that's only if Anaheim is really interested in a guy in that range. From there, it's a lot of mediocre to useless assets for them. Chances are they select a centre either their own pick, so their future 1-2 punch will be solidified down the middle with Zegras and whoever they pick, which would make Strome not worth anything to them. Subban isn't better than Stolarz for a backup role that they already have filled. Shalunov Isn't a highly valued prospect, not likely to be a high end guy. Zadorov would be useful in the immediate future to fill Lindholm's spot, but the value difference would be well more than just a 1st.

    Anaheim would be looking for a higher end winger prospect to eventually play with Zegras and compliment him well in the top 6. The only guy that would even come close to that in that age range would be Alex Nylander. So if Anaheim was high on Nylander, I'd say a deal likely starts around say the 12th overall pick and Nylander. Maybe add another B-/C+ prospect that has some AHL experience and I'd say it's close to fair value. The Muzzin deal to Toronto and the asking price that was speculated for Ekholm would be the best comparable. Those guys had half a season more on their contract, but when Lindholm is healthy he's far better than both of those guys. With 1 year left Anaheim might consider retaining 50% to maximize the value, which again I see Nylander and the 12th overall pick being in talks for
    OldNYIfan liked this.
    May 5, 2021 at 7:53 p.m.
    #12
    Thread Starter
    Avatar of the user
    Joined: Mar. 2021
    Posts: 348
    Likes: 155
    Quoting: TrueCanuck
    I think if you look at this from Anaheim's point of view, there's just no incentive in this package that you've listed. Really the only interesting piece is the 1st round pick and that's only if Anaheim is really interested in a guy in that range. From there, it's a lot of mediocre to useless assets for them. Chances are they select a centre either their own pick, so their future 1-2 punch will be solidified down the middle with Zegras and whoever they pick, which would make Strome not worth anything to them. Subban isn't better than Stolarz for a backup role that they already have filled. Shalunov Isn't a highly valued prospect, not likely to be a high end guy. Zadorov would be useful in the immediate future to fill Lindholm's spot, but the value difference would be well more than just a 1st.

    Anaheim would be looking for a higher end winger prospect to eventually play with Zegras and compliment him well in the top 6. The only guy that would even come close to that in that age range would be Alex Nylander. So if Anaheim was high on Nylander, I'd say a deal likely starts around say the 12th overall pick and Nylander. Maybe add another B-/C+ prospect that has some AHL experience and I'd say it's close to fair value. The Muzzin deal to Toronto and the asking price that was speculated for Ekholm would be the best comparable. Those guys had half a season more on their contract, but when Lindholm is healthy he's far better than both of those guys. With 1 year left Anaheim might consider retaining 50% to maximize the value, which again I see Nylander and the 12th overall pick being in talks for


    You consider most of the assets beside the first round pick to be mediocre assets, which I find very interesting because then you add Alex Nylander, who I can only really refer to as a mediocre asset. He was given lots of opportunity last year in the top 9 and really didn't show much, there's a reason he was benched in the bubble last year. I value Strome to actually be more valuable than Nylander because his success at the NHL level is far more than what Nylander has done so far and his positional value is higher too. I did forget about Stolarz so Subban is redundant, Shalunov is not part of the trade value, pure throw in, I recognize hes 28 with fringe NHL upside. But if you think that all it would take to get Lindholm is Nylander and that first. I don't see why Strome and a first is really that different. Especially between the package having "no incentive" like you said and the package you proposed being one you'd offer if you were the ducks.
    May 5, 2021 at 9:15 p.m.
    #13
    Roster Architect
    Avatar of the user
    Joined: Mar. 2021
    Posts: 2,643
    Likes: 909
    Quoting: Tyler_A10
    You consider most of the assets beside the first round pick to be mediocre assets, which I find very interesting because then you add Alex Nylander, who I can only really refer to as a mediocre asset. He was given lots of opportunity last year in the top 9 and really didn't show much, there's a reason he was benched in the bubble last year. I value Strome to actually be more valuable than Nylander because his success at the NHL level is far more than what Nylander has done so far and his positional value is higher too. I did forget about Stolarz so Subban is redundant, Shalunov is not part of the trade value, pure throw in, I recognize hes 28 with fringe NHL upside. But if you think that all it would take to get Lindholm is Nylander and that first. I don't see why Strome and a first is really that different. Especially between the package having "no incentive" like you said and the package you proposed being one you'd offer if you were the ducks.


    The difference in value between Strome and Nylander is more positional and potential upside. There's still many around the league that see Nylander as a high skill guy that can produce in the right situation. Beside a guy like Zegras could be that spot. Strome is what he is now. He's a 3C that can fill in at 2C if needed but nothing more. His skating will always hold him back and he hasn't shown any progression. Usually a centre is worth more than a winger, yes. But Nylander is still young enough that a change could help and playing with a high end guy like Zegras could really help. I also never said that it would be just Nylander and the 12th overall pick. I said another prospect would be added in. The thing that hampers Lindholm is his injury concerns and missing most of this season, that coupled with the fact that he'll be a pending UFA don't scream an outrageous amount of value. Depends how highly Anaheim management values him, but realistically the 12th overall pick, a young roster player with high upside, and another B-/C+ prospect would be good value for Anaheim to look at getting in return.
    OldNYIfan liked this.
    May 5, 2021 at 10:12 p.m.
    #14
    Once a Kings Fan Too
    Avatar of the user
    Joined: Jun. 2018
    Posts: 40,849
    Likes: 25,670
    Quoting: OutCold13
    Out of curiosity, since I'm a big JEEK fan, how does Olle Eriksson Ek look? Does he have a chance as a goalie or is he really not much of a prospect?


    Because we have two such good prospects in Dostal and Durny, he's slipped down the depth chart, but I still hold out hope for him. They've liked him in San Diego, and all three seasons here in the US he's had over a .90 save %. I think that next year, he shares the starting job in San Diego with Dostal, who's tearing it up down there.
    OutCold13 liked this.
    May 6, 2021 at 12:23 a.m.
    #15
    Avatar of the user
    Joined: Apr. 2021
    Posts: 657
    Likes: 352
    Alright here’s my nit pick at this:

    A) We have Stolarz, Dostal, Durny, and Ericksson Ek to backup Gibson. All of which can probably turn out to work better than Subban and all of the listed are younger than Subban as well.

    B) I don’t think Strome has an place with us as of right now considering we have Getzalf, Henrique ( possibly depending on Seattle ) Steel, Lundestrom, Groulx, and Big man Zegras at the center. It would be nice to have him but I don’t think he would crack a spot unless Steel or Henrique were to be moved and Getzlaf ends up retiring this season.

    C) I like the idea of another top 15 pick unfortunately I hate that the year we suck again, the Draft class is pretty weak.

    D) Zadorov would fit really well with the Ducks but we have so many LHD I don’t know what to do with them.

    E) Shalunov I have no idea about so I have no opinion on him.

    Overall I think this value is pretty good. But I think the Ducks end up passing simply cause if they were to trade Lindholm it would be for a youngTop winger to play alongside Zegras
    OldNYIfan liked this.
    May 6, 2021 at 12:39 a.m.
    #16
    Avatar of the user
    Joined: Oct. 2019
    Posts: 4,986
    Likes: 2,356
    From a Hawks perspective I would take the Lindholm deal in a heartbeat, I can see the attachment ANA have with him but he's got a year left, he's been injured for most of this year and likely isn't going to resign. The longer they wait to take a deal the worse offers they are going to get. I agree this would help them with Strome filling that role and could even allow him to grow further as with Dach and Toews returning his opportunities are a lot less with us. I still think he has a fair amount of upside and he is also still young enough at 24 to still develop, yes his skating is not the best but his offensive output when with skaters and skill players has proven he could be the 50-60 point player that could help the Ducks until Zegras and whoever they select in this draft as they come through. If it meant getting this deal across the line I would discuss Nylander being added in there but it couldn't just be Lindholm + 2021 2nd for Strome + Nylander + 2021 First. Thats too much IMO. How about this:

    Blackhawks Receive:

    Linholm
    Ducks 2021 2nd Round (projected 33)
    Ducks 2021 3rd Round

    Ducks Receive:

    Strome
    Nylander
    Hawks 2021 1st Round (projected 12th)
    Canucks 2021 4th Round

    I mean if the Ducks don't want to do a deal (I can see their perspective though you may get backed into a corner the longer you wait), they may lose him for nothing come FA.
    OldNYIfan liked this.
     
    Reply
    To create a post please Login or Register
    Question:
    Options:
    Add Option
    Submit Poll