Probably the best roster in the league

RFA	YEARS	CAP HIT
Ritchie, Nick	5	$3,250,000
Kase, Ondrej	5	$3,750,000
Carlo, Brandon	5	$3,750,000

UFA	YEARS	CAP HIT
Hall, Taylor	7	$7,250,000
Reilly, Mike	3	$2,750,000
Rask, Tuukka	2	$5,250,000
Coleman, Blake	4	$4,000,000
Pysyk, Mark	2	$1,000,000
Tatar, Tomas	4	$4,500,000
Koekkoek, Slater	3	$1,500,000
Hjalmarsson, Niklas	3	$3,250,000

ROSTER SIZE	SALARY CAP	CAP HIT	OVERAGES	BONUSES	CAP SPACE
23	$81,500,000	$81,279,841	$1,956,507	$182,500	$220,159

Left Wing	Centre	Right Wing
Marchand, Brad $6,125,000$6,125,000 LW NMC UFA - 4	Bergeron, Patrice $6,875,000$6,875,000 C M-NTC, NMC UFA - 1	Pastrnak, David $6,666,667$6,666,667 RW M-NTC, NMC UFA - 2
Hall, Taylor $7,250,000$7,250,000 LW UFA - 4	Smith, Craig $3,100,000$3,100,000 RW UFA - 2	Tatar, Tomas $4,500,000$4,500,000 LW, RW UFA - 2
Ritchie, Nick $3,250,000$3,250,000 LW UFA - 2	Coleman, Blake $4,000,000$4,000,000 RW, LW UFA - 6	Kase, Ondrej $3,750,000$3,750,000 RW UFA - 1
DeBrusk, Jake $3,675,000$3,675,000 RW, LW UFA - 1	Lazar, Curtis $800,000$800,000 RW, C UFA - 1	Kuhlman, Karson $725,000$725,000 RW UFA - 1
	Studnicka, Jack $769,167$769,167 ($57,500$58K) RW, C RFA - 1	Wagner, Chris $1,350,000$1,350,000 RW, C UFA - 2

Left Defense	Right Defense	Goaltender
Grzelcyk, Matt $3,687,500$3,687,500 LD UFA - 3	McAvoy, Charlie $4,900,000$4,900,000 RD UFA - 1	Rask, Tuukka $5,250,000$5,250,000 G UFA - 1
Reilly, Mike $2,750,000$2,750,000 LD UFA - 3	Pysyk, Mark $1,000,000$1,000,000 RD UFA - 1	Swayman, Jeremy $925,000$925,000 ($125,000$125K) G RFA - 2
Koekkoek, Slater $1,500,000$1,500,000 LD/RD UFA - 2	Hjalmarsson, Niklas $3,250,000$3,250,000 LD/RD UFA
Lauzon, Jérémy $850,000$850,000 LD/RD UFA - 1

May 16, 2021 at 11:16 a.m.

#26

CMcAvoy73

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Quoting: A_Habs_fan

You can't tell me that having guys like Koekkoek, Reilly or Psysk i better than having Carlo, Carlo has room to grow and is bettet than all of them. Reilly is good but not as a 2nd pair guy and Psysk definitely shouldn't be on a 2nd pair too

I’m starting to think this isn’t a human worth rationalizing with. Seems like he’s just picked a stat website to tell him what to think about players.

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May 16, 2021 at 11:20 a.m.

#27

MelonVK

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Quoting: A_Habs_fan

You can't tell me that having guys like Koekkoek, Reilly or Psysk i better than having Carlo, Carlo has room to grow and is bettet than all of them. Reilly is good but not as a 2nd pair guy and Psysk definitely shouldn't be on a 2nd pair too

Quoting: Gofnut999

😂🙄

Sigh, and we're back to "Carlo is good because he's good"

Like it's so tiresome. When we assume a player to be at a certain point defensively or offensively, do we just not care about the other dimension of hockey anymore?

Reilly is way better at offense than Carlo is at defense, but narrative hasn't caught up yet and might never. We also tend to value one defensive mistake as being worth several offensive mistakes for no good reason. My issue with Carlo, on top of that, is that he isn't growing. He did after like his first 2 seasons, then he actually became a good player defensively. The issue is his offense got *even worse* after that.

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May 16, 2021 at 11:22 a.m.

#28

A_Habs_fan

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Quoting: MelonVK

Sigh, and we're back to "Carlo is good because he's good"

Like it's so tiresome. When we assume a player to be at a certain point defensively or offensively, do we just not care about the other dimension of hockey anymore?

Reilly is way better at offense than Carlo is at defense, but narrative hasn't caught up yet and might never. We also tend to value one defensive mistake as being worth several offensive mistakes for no good reason. My issue with Carlo, on top of that, is that he isn't growing. He did after like his first 2 seasons, then he actually became a good player defensively. The issue is his offense got *even worse* after that.

Well you are clearly relying on analytics too much and not enough on the eye test, have a fun time arguing your that you're right when you're not

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May 16, 2021 at 11:26 a.m.

#29

MelonVK

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Quoting: CMcAvoy73

You can explain how you think 2+2=5, it doesn’t mean you’re right. Your take on Carlo is just bad. I can’t understand how someone who has watched him play could possibly have such an opinion. Maybe that’s the issue.

This is quite literally one of the worst ACGMs I have ever seen. You’ve completely destroyed a good team. Lay off the fancy stats man. They can certainly be used, but when it’s all you use, you wind with awful teams like this. Watch. It’s a fun sport to watch.

The issue is you're watching through a tinted lens. If I told you Carlo is way worse offensively than he is good defensively, and you watched a few games - you would see it. The issue is we're fed dumb narratives, and then confirmation bias kicks in. If I told you Reilly was average defensively and *really, really strong* offensively, you'd probably see it too.

From my point of view, you're saying "lmao, imagine thinking the earth is round, we are STANDING on a FLAT SURFACE

". Like yeah, things might seem a certain way, but it's because we've bought into an explanation. That explanation breaks down at deeper levels of analysis, but you won't go there, because changing your mind is a discomfort. Boston has looked way better since obtaining Hall and Rielly, that's all I can tell you that you might actually agree with.

Saying "this is bad" is a completely baseless value statement. Picking and choosing stats when they fit your narrative is literally what makes them unusable in most scenarios.

May 16, 2021 at 11:26 a.m.

#30

Gofnut999

Joined: Jan. 2017

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Quoting: MelonVK

Sigh, and we're back to "Carlo is good because he's good"

Like it's so tiresome. When we assume a player to be at a certain point defensively or offensively, do we just not care about the other dimension of hockey anymore?

Reilly is way better at offense than Carlo is at defense, but narrative hasn't caught up yet and might never. We also tend to value one defensive mistake as being worth several offensive mistakes for no good reason. My issue with Carlo, on top of that, is that he isn't growing. He did after like his first 2 seasons, then he actually became a good player defensively. The issue is his offense got *even worse* after that.

Reilly is way better on offense than Carlo. And Carlo is way better on defense than Reilly.

I don’t care of he’s not a 30 point guy. Not his job. You forgetting the first part of defenseman is defense? Hal Gill was a longtime stalwart on D that provided no offense at all but was a stud in his own end.

It’s laughable that you knock Carlo for his offense yet replace him with Jalmy and Pysyk who are even worse offensively. Lol.

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May 16, 2021 at 11:27 a.m.

#31

tsyls

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Quoting: A_Habs_fan

Well you are clearly relying on analytics too much and not enough on the eye test, have a fun time arguing your that you're right when you're not

You know it’s bad when a habs fan has to argue with a bruins fan about how good a bruins player is....

To me it just seems like he only relies on advanced stats. Because Carlo has bad offensive stats. But that’s like saying that the Jets shouldn’t protect a guy like Connor because he can’t play defence... A player like Carlo isn’t expected to put up 30+ pts, he’s a great shutdown guy who compliments and offensive minded dman. Just like a play driving winger in Connor compliments an offensive minded playmaking C in scheifele. You don’t expect them to play amazing defence, because you know they’re going to put up points for you.

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May 16, 2021 at 11:27 a.m.

#32

MelonVK

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Quoting: A_Habs_fan

Well you are clearly relying on analytics too much and not enough on the eye test, have a fun time arguing your that you're right when you're not

My eye test is telling me Carlo is good defensively and atrocious offensively. If he's +5 on defense and -10 on offense, he's still a -5 player. He's still useful, just not worth nearly that much money. He should be on a 3rd pair and mostly playing to protect leads or vs the opponents best players. It's fine to have him on the roster, it's just not worth paying or playing him a lot.

May 16, 2021 at 11:30 a.m.

#33

tsyls

Joined: Jun. 2019

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Quoting: Gofnut999

Reilly is way better on offense than Carlo. And Carlo is way better on defense than Reilly.

I don’t care of he’s not a 30 point guy. Not his job. You forgetting the first part of defenseman is defense? Hal Gill was a longtime stalwart on D that provided no offense at all but was a stud in his own end.

It’s laughable that you knock Carlo for his offense yet replace him with Jalmy and Pysyk who are even worse offensively. Lol.

I wouldn’t even bother. This person seems waaay to reliant on advanced stats. Like you said the B’s aren’t expecting Carlo to put up 30+ pts, he’s a shutdown dman used to compliment an offensive minded dman.

You’re essentially speaking to a brick wall right now. He says that there’s so much bias, but he’s literally ignoring the fact that Carlos shutdown game is really good and that he doesn’t need to put up a bunch of points. His ignorance is much worse than any sort of “bias” and I don’t even think it’s bias because there’s a habs fan in here talking about how good Carlo is LOL

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May 16, 2021 at 11:30 a.m.

#34

MelonVK

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Quoting: Gofnut999

Reilly is way better on offense than Carlo. And Carlo is way better on defense than Reilly.

I don’t care of he’s not a 30 point guy. Not his job. You forgetting the first part of defenseman is defense? Hal Gill was a longtime stalwart on D that provided no offense at all but was a stud in his own end.

It’s laughable that you knock Carlo for his offense yet replace him with Jalmy and Pysyk who are even worse offensively. Lol.

This is also incorrect. We want the most output as possible from a defenseman, regardless of where it comes from. You deciding "defense is worth more because look at the word DEFENSEman" is maybe the dumbest conclusion you could draw on an arbitrary basis.

The gap between Reillys impact on defense and offense is really big. Carlo has a negative gap, cause he's worse on offense than he is good on defense. Carlo is a net negative player. I don't understand how this doesn't add up for you.

May 16, 2021 at 11:32 a.m.

#35

MelonVK

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Quoting: tsyls

I wouldn’t even bother. This person seems waaay to reliant on advanced stats. Like you said the B’s aren’t expecting Carlo to put up 30+ pts, he’s a shutdown dman used to compliment an offensive minded dman.

You’re essentially speaking to a brick wall right now. He says that there’s so much bias, but he’s literally ignoring the fact that Carlos shutdown game is really good and that he doesn’t need to put up a bunch of points. His ignorance is much worse than any sort of “bias” and I don’t even think it’s bias because there’s a habs fan in here talking about how good Carlo is LOL

You guys, listening to dumb narratives and favoring players on your own teams: "clearly we're just unbiased observes of the game"

Me, torching some players on my favorite team after digging into the tangible impact of their play: "lmao look at this guys BIAS"

I can't even

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May 16, 2021 at 11:35 a.m.

#36

A_Habs_fan

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Joined: Oct. 2020

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Quoting: tsyls

You know it’s bad when a habs fan has to argue with a bruins fan about how good a bruins player is....

To me it just seems like he only relies on advanced stats. Because Carlo has bad offensive stats. But that’s like saying that the Jets shouldn’t protect a guy like Connor because he can’t play defence... A player like Carlo isn’t expected to put up 30+ pts, he’s a great shutdown guy who compliments and offensive minded dman. Just like a play driving winger in Connor compliments an offensive minded playmaking C in scheifele. You don’t expect them to play amazing defence, because you know they’re going to put up points for you.

Exactly the Bruins aren't relying on Carlo to put up offensive stats

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May 16, 2021 at 11:36 a.m.

#37

MelonVK

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Quoting: CMcAvoy73

I’m starting to think this isn’t a human worth rationalizing with. Seems like he’s just picked a stat website to tell him what to think about players.

Do you not trust physics? Economics? Medicine?

We use statistics to a crazy extend in these fields, where we have made incredible advancements on extremely complicated subjects.

It's just so funny to me how we toss out all rationality just because it's sports. This 12-player game on ice is somehow beyond any and all use of proper statistical analysis while the actually complicated subjects I mentioned aren't?

May 16, 2021 at 11:36 a.m.

#38

MelonVK

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Quoting: A_Habs_fan

Exactly the Bruins aren't relying on Carlo to put up offensive stats

Or, as they would per my suggestion, Hjalmarsson. But we accept this for one player but not the other?

May 16, 2021 at 11:38 a.m.

#39

A_Habs_fan

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Quoting: MelonVK

Or, as they would per my suggestion, Hjalmarsson. But we accept this for one player but not the other?

except Carlo is still better overall and has potential

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May 16, 2021 at 11:38 a.m.

#40

tsyls

Joined: Jun. 2019

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Quoting: MelonVK

You guys, listening to dumb narratives and favoring players on your own teams: "clearly we're just unbiased observes of the game"

Me, torching some players on my favorite team after digging into the tangible impact of their play: "lmao look at this guys BIAS"

I can't even

I have no dog in this fight. I don’t cheer for the B’s or follow them.

But I do know, from watching and looking at stats, that Carlo is a good defensive dman.

My issue with what you’re saying is that you’re being totally ignorant to the fact that not every dman is a two way guy. Plus most teams don’t build their roster around 6 two way dman. A guy like Carlo is incredibly useful, as he can provide a really stabilizing presence to a d pair with an offensive minded dman. You’re acting like he’s a plug because he only plays defence.... it’s not that simple, you need guys like Carlo, who still is growing as a player, and who is very very responsible.

I get that Carlo is a net negative, but to act like it’s a smart idea to replace him with aging dman makes 0 sense when the difference between them is marginal. It’s a simple solution for Carlo to me, play him with an offensively strong dman. But the fact that you’re acting like Carlo is a plug because he’s not strong offensively is a joke. Did you say this about chara or other defensive dman? Oleksiak?

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May 16, 2021 at 11:40 a.m.

#41

MelonVK

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Quoting: A_Habs_fan

except Carlo is still better overall and has potential

You're just saying these things. I agree, Carlo is probably better in 5 years. Or you can pick up any of like 3 free agents team pass on or pay league minimum because narrative doesn't tell us they-re good, when in reality they are. Carlo has was better two seasons ago than he is now. He's what, 24? He's not some spring chicken, he's a 5 season veteran or whatever.

May 16, 2021 at 11:40 a.m.

#42

Gofnut999

Joined: Jan. 2017

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Quoting: MelonVK

This is also incorrect. We want the most output as possible from a defenseman, regardless of where it comes from. You deciding "defense is worth more because look at the word DEFENSEman" is maybe the dumbest conclusion you could draw on an arbitrary basis.

The gap between Reillys impact on defense and offense is really big. Carlo has a negative gap, cause he's worse on offense than he is good on defense. Carlo is a net negative player. I don't understand how this doesn't add up for you.

Reilly and Carlo don’t even play the same position. LD v RD so the comparison is pointless anyway.

If i am going to have a one dimensional d man. I’d rather it be defense. I’ll take a player like Carlo that i don’t have to hide over a player like Erik Gustafsson or Ghost type. Hell Quinn Hughes has been the darling of the league on defense yet he is one of the worst defensemen in the league. Makes Krug look like a shut down guy.

In a perfect world would i want all 6 defenseman to be 30 point plus puck movers that play shut down defense and hit everything that moves. Absolutely. You kniw how many of them exist? Not many. 3rd pair plugs that don’t excel at either but don’t suck at either are 3rd pair plugs because of that.

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May 16, 2021 at 11:43 a.m.

#43

Radu47

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Nifty AGM 👍

I'm naturally very eye to eye on the values here (Hjalmarsson the exception) but a rather underwhelmed on the giving Carlo away part

Great opportunity to trade him

Anyhow this is cool and good and interesting

A stark reminder of where this site is progress wise

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May 16, 2021 at 11:45 a.m.

#44

MelonVK

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Quoting: tsyls

I have no dog in this fight. I don’t cheer for the B’s or follow them.

But I do know, from watching and looking at stats, that Carlo is a good defensive dman.

My issue with what you’re saying is that you’re being totally ignorant to the fact that not every dman is a two way guy. Plus most teams don’t build their roster around 6 two way dman. A guy like Carlo is incredibly useful, as he can provide a really stabilizing presence to a d pair with an offensive minded dman. You’re acting like he’s a plug because he only plays defence.... it’s not that simple, you need guys like Carlo, who still is growing as a player, and who is very very responsible.

I get that Carlo is a net negative, but to act like it’s a smart idea to replace him with aging dman makes 0 sense when the difference between them is marginal. It’s a simple solution for Carlo to me, play him with an offensively strong dman. But the fact that you’re acting like Carlo is a plug because he’s not strong offensively is a joke. Did you say this about chara or other defensive dman? Oleksiak?

Chara and Oleksiak are net positive players. Neither is close to being as offensively bad as defensively good.

The funniest part is I've even said Carlo is a useful player. I think you can situationalize enough to get a net positive effect out of him. My issue is bending yourself over backwards to get a solid performance out of a guy you're going to pay 4+ million on a long-term contract.

I agree, you don't need to rely on every defenseman offensively. That's why I suggested guys like Pysyk and Koekkoek, who are good defensively, and good offensively as well. They also somehow cost cents on Carlo's dollar. Unless you're going to use that against me; "they're not paid because they aren't good", in which case I'd just log off this website. Cause if we believe every players is worth their salary, every team paying up to the cap would be equally good.

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May 16, 2021 at 11:47 a.m.

#45

MelonVK

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Quoting: Radu47

Nifty AGM 👍

I'm naturally very eye to eye on the values here (Hjalmarsson the exception) but a rather underwhelmed on the giving Carlo away part

Great opportunity to trade him

Anyhow this is cool and good and interesting

A stark reminder of where this site is progress wise

I really wouldn't necessarily go for Hjalmarsson, but people have this idea the team needs a defensive defenseman, and I figured why not upgrade from Carlo and not really losing anything in the expansion draft. I agree there is value to get from a Carlo trade, so that's probably a better solution to the situation regardless of how differently we value Carlo. I hope it's clear I still think he's fine, it's just that he's going to get overpaid in my opinion.

May 16, 2021 at 11:51 a.m.

#46

Radu47

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Insane F core

1. One line of MVP ish level players

2. Then one typical 1st line

3. Then a good 2nd line

4. Then a 3rd line

~

Nifty D core with a nice variety of skillsets

~

G a bit uncertain with one quite old one quite young

~

But yeah basically the East counterpart to COL/VGK

~

rock on

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May 16, 2021 at 11:53 a.m.

#47

MelonVK

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Quoting: Gofnut999

Reilly and Carlo don’t even play the same position. LD v RD so the comparison is pointless anyway.

If i am going to have a one dimensional d man. I’d rather it be defense. I’ll take a player like Carlo that i don’t have to hide over a player like Erik Gustafsson or Ghost type. Hell Quinn Hughes has been the darling of the league on defense yet he is one of the worst defensemen in the league. Makes Krug look like a shut down guy.

In a perfect world would i want all 6 defenseman to be 30 point plus puck movers that play shut down defense and hit everything that moves. Absolutely. You kniw how many of them exist? Not many. 3rd pair plugs that don’t excel at either but don’t suck at either are 3rd pair plugs because of that.

You'd be happy to know my numbers tell me both Gustafsson are below average players offensively - it's more the opportunity they're given. Especially Gustafsson is really bad. I'd rather have Carlo than both. Krug isn't atrocious on defense, just a little bad. I'd rather have Carlo at 4.5 than Krug at 6.5. Hughes isn't even bad at defense from what I can gather. Any mistakes he makes is likely made up by him holding on to the puck more and creating less opportunity for his opposition. This is, again something that's super hard to actually see with your eyes. You can spot mistakes pretty easily, but it's super hard to tell when a player has you playing in the oppositions end 55% of the time. I sense this has more to do with them being small than anything else.

I sincerely don't disagree with much of your sentiment, I just claim that Carlo is like +5 good on defense and -10 good on offense. Reilly is like +15 on offense and +/- 0 defensively.

May 16, 2021 at 11:55 a.m.

#48

Radu47

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Edited May 16, 2021 at 12:05 p.m.

If anyone was curious SKATR chats have Carlo as

Just under a 40th percentile player overall: a good 3D

- Fairly cushy deployment all told

- Virtually nothing offensively

- Pretty good defensively

There's like a 5% chance he could become ME Vlasic

Basically a "ideally keep him/but not valuable" asset

Edit:

Awful penalty killer (17th percentile)

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May 16, 2021 at 11:57 a.m.

#49

MelonVK

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Quoting: Radu47

Insane F core

1. One line of MVP ish level players

2. Then one typical 1st line

3. Then a good 2nd line

4. Then a 3rd line

~

Nifty D core with a nice variety of skillsets

~

G a bit uncertain with one quite old one quite young

~

But yeah basically the East counterpart to COL/VGK

~

rock on

For sure. Rask is still putting up numbers though, and Swayman has looked good so far. Worst case, Vladar or Keyser might be able to play.

Also, shoutout to consistently-good-yet-somehow-always-scratched Kuhlman getting an opportunity!

May 16, 2021 at 11:59 a.m.

#50

MelonVK

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Quoting: Radu47

If anyone was curious SKATR chats have Carlo as

Just under a 40th percentile player overall: a good 3D

- Fairly cushy deployment all told

- Virtually nothing offensively

- Pretty good defensively

There's like a 10% chance he could become ME Vlasic

Basically a "ideally keep him/but not valuable" asset

Edit:

Awful penalty killer (17th percentile)

The annoying part here is the penalty-killing. If he was just a decent PK-er you could just start him in the defensive zone and give him shut-down deployment. The issue is he'd get like 5 realistic minutes of useful play per game if he's not killing penalties

Draft	Round 1	Round 2	Round 3	Round 4	Round 5	Round 6	Round 7
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Lauko, Jakub $764,167$764,167 ($0$0$0$0) ($107,500$108K) LW, RW RFA - 2
Vladar, Daniel $750,000$750,000 ($0$0$0$0) G UFA - 2

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