Time for a Trigger

ROSTER SIZE	SALARY CAP	CAP HIT	OVERAGES	BONUSES	CAP SPACE
22	$81,500,000	$63,029,214	$452,439	$3,415,000	$18,470,786

Left Wing	Centre	Right Wing
Kubalik, Dominik $3,700,000$3,700,000 LW, RW UFA - 1	Toews, Jonathan $10,500,000$10,500,000 C NMC UFA - 2	Kurashev, Philipp $842,500$842,500 ($32,500$32K) LW, C, RW RFA - 1
DeBrincat, Alex $6,400,000$6,400,000 LW, RW UFA - 2	Borgström, Henrik $1,000,000$1,000,000 C RFA - 2	Kane, Patrick $2,625,000$2,625,000 RW NMC UFA - 2
Hagel, Brandon $1,500,000$1,500,000 LW UFA - 3	Dach, Kirby $925,000$925,000 ($2,500,000$2M) C, RW RFA - 1	Johnson, Tyler $5,000,000$5,000,000 RW, C, LW M-NTC UFA - 3
Khaira, Jujhar $975,000$975,000 LW, C UFA - 2	Gaudette, Adam $997,500$997,500 C, RW UFA - 1	Carpenter, Ryan $1,000,000$1,000,000 RW, C UFA - 1

Left Defense	Right Defense	Goaltender
De Haan, Calvin $4,550,000$4,550,000 LD/RD UFA - 1	Jones, Seth $5,400,000$5,400,000 RD M-NTC UFA - 1	Fleury, Marc-André $3,500,000$3,500,000 G M-NTC UFA - 1
McCabe, Jake $2,000,000$2,000,000 LD/RD M-NTC UFA - 4	Murphy, Connor $3,850,000$3,850,000 RD UFA - 1	Lankinen, Kevin $800,000$800,000 G UFA - 1
Stillman, Riley $1,350,000$1,350,000 LD RFA - 3	Mitchell, Ian $925,000$925,000 ($850,000$850K) RD RFA - 2

Scratches	Injured Reserve (IR)	Long Term IR (LTIR)
Entwistle, Mackenzie $811,667$811,667 ($32,500$32K) LW, C RFA - 1		Shaw, Andrew $3,900,000$3,900,000 C, RW UFA - 1
Gustafsson, Erik $800,000$800,000 LD UFA - 1		Jones, Caleb $850,000$850,000 LD/RD UFA - 1

Oct. 14, 2021 at 2:52 p.m.

#1

Kyle from Chicago

Joined: Feb. 2018

Posts: 9,845

Likes: 5,820

My only response to a post like this is, “What would change if Byram was on Chicago and Dach was on Colorado” my answer is that the better player from a fan perspective will always be on Colorado. They are better at developing players, and creating good hockey teams. It’s just the way it is.. if Byram was drafted by the hawks my guess is that he would have been traded by now, probably a throw into the Jones deal in all likelihood. It’s because Chicago rushes players and gets disillusioned at the first sign of struggle… that’s why Mitchell will be in RFD, why Boq will be in CBJ, and why Joki will be in BUF.

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Oct. 14, 2021 at 3:01 p.m.

#2

HatterTParty

Thread Starter

Joined: Jun. 2019

Posts: 2,351

Likes: 851

Quoting: Stan_Bowman

My only response to a post like this is, “What would change if Byram was on Chicago and Dach was on Colorado” my answer is that the better player from a fan perspective will always be on Colorado. They are better at developing players, and creating good hockey teams. It’s just the way it is.. if Byram was drafted by the hawks my guess is that he would have been traded by now, probably a throw into the Jones deal in all likelihood. It’s because Chicago rushes players and gets disillusioned at the first sign of struggle… that’s why Mitchell will be in RFD, why Boq will be in CBJ, and why Joki will be in BUF.

The problem with your response is you’re assuming the Avs would have taken him. I’ve heard all the stories of people saying the Avs would have, but that’s pure he said, she said. I’d honestly make the case they’d still take a dman of some kind, but again, who knows. Seider looks perfect for their defense.

Having said that, I don’t disagree with you on development. I don’t think Dach will ever be as good as he could have been simply cuz the hawks were too high on him. Letting him go to the NHL in season 1 and letting him go to world juniors. Correction, go to wjc camp and not even get to the tournament. There is a fundamental flaw in how this franchise runs itself these days.

What doesn’t change is simply this: both players are here now, and round 1 to byram. He looks exactly like he’s suppose to. Dach isn’t gonna get it easy against the Avs for another ten years.

Oct. 14, 2021 at 3:14 p.m.

#3

exo2769

Joined: Jul. 2015

Posts: 15,644

Likes: 9,766

Well, you and I disagree on the hit.

I can also admit that I was Byram guy at the draft. I thought getting a Keith replacement would be a good thing and it would be nice to have a puck moving LD right about now. I REALLY liked how Byram elevated his play during the WHL playoffs. He was huge. I also agree with @stan_bowman that the Hawks rush kids too fast. Why is Reichel in Rockford? Why not the WHL or DEL for one more year? Why did Boqvist only get 15 games in Rockford...Dach got literally 3.

ChiHawk liked this.

Oct. 14, 2021 at 3:17 p.m.

#4

Wadejos123

Joined: May 2017

Posts: 8,285

Likes: 4,928

I would say Dach was clearly our best forward last night. If you want to be frusterated with any forward last night start with Kane. He created absultly zero offesivly the entire game till we pulled the goalie. Be mad at Johnson for two dumb penalties. Be mad at Borgstrom for being invisible. Yeah Dach needs to learn how to finish, but I would be waaayyy more concerned if he wasn't generating chances at all

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Oct. 14, 2021 at 3:17 p.m.

#5

exo2769

Joined: Jul. 2015

Posts: 15,644

Likes: 9,766

Quoting: HatterTParty

The problem with your response is you’re assuming the Avs would have taken him. I’ve heard all the stories of people saying the Avs would have, but that’s pure he said, she said. I’d honestly make the case they’d still take a dman of some kind, but again, who knows. Seider looks perfect for their defense.

Having said that, I don’t disagree with you on development. I don’t think Dach will ever be as good as he could have been simply cuz the hawks were too high on him. Letting him go to the NHL in season 1 and letting him go to world juniors. Correction, go to wjc camp and not even get to the tournament. There is a fundamental flaw in how this franchise runs itself these days.

What doesn’t change is simply this: both players are here now, and round 1 to byram. He looks exactly like he’s suppose to. Dach isn’t gonna get it easy against the Avs for another ten years.

I think this is mostly your bias right now. I admit I was a Byram guy, but he's played 1 game and in sheltered minutes on the bottom pair. They also play a really aggressive game and pounced on a team that wasn't ready.

ChiHawk liked this.

Oct. 14, 2021 at 3:18 p.m.

#6

exo2769

Joined: Jul. 2015

Posts: 15,644

Likes: 9,766

Quoting: Wadejos123

I would say Dach was clearly our best forward last night. If you want to be frusterated with any forward last night start with Kane. He created absultly zero offesivly the entire game till we pulled the goalie. Be mad at Johnson for two dumb penalties. Be mad at Borgstrom for being invisible. Yeah Dach needs to learn how to finish, but I would be waaayyy more concerned if he wasn't generating chances at all

If you liked Hagel last year...what's not to like about Dach's singular game yesterday? Dach was easily their best forward. Creating turnovers. Driving posession. Played the PK. Had a few GOOD solid (legal and not dirty) hits.

ChiHawk liked this.

Oct. 14, 2021 at 3:23 p.m.

#7

Wadejos123

Joined: May 2017

Posts: 8,285

Likes: 4,928

Quoting: exo2769

If you liked Hagel last year...what's not to like about Dach's singular game yesterday? Dach was easily their best forward. Creating turnovers. Driving posession. Played the PK. Had a few GOOD solid (legal and not dirty) hits.

I mean I love Dach and Hagel. Strome frusterates me at times, borgstrom did last night, Colliton definetly does. But not dach or hagel

exo2769 liked this.

Oct. 14, 2021 at 3:38 p.m.

#8

coga16

Joined: Jun. 2015

Posts: 20,030

Likes: 12,187

dach will be good, hes going to be a handful for years to come

Just take into consideration that Dmen do not make the same impacts earlier on, especially at 18-19 years old like Byram was last season. Forwards have came into the league at 18-19 and been dynamite, Lots of time for both plaers to mold into their entering prime years, they are both super talented. Its hard to compare those 2 at 19 years old, Gotta do this when they are 23-24

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Oct. 14, 2021 at 3:52 p.m.

#9

ChiHawk

Joined: Apr. 2017

Posts: 19,029

Likes: 9,331

Actually, what you said in 2019 is you wanted Turcotte and if not him, then Byram before Dach. I was in alignment with you back then as well.

However, hindsight is 20/20 and takes a humble person to realize that was wrong. Today Turcotte versus Dach...I'll take Dach every day of the week and hopefully you aren't foolish to not realize that as well. To say Byram looked much better then Dach last night is also wrong; Byram is playing on a much better more talented elite team...that's about the only thing you should have taken away.

Oct. 14, 2021 at 3:55 p.m.

#10

HatterTParty

Thread Starter

Joined: Jun. 2019

Posts: 2,351

Likes: 851

Quoting: exo2769

Well, you and I disagree on the hit.

I can also admit that I was Byram guy at the draft. I thought getting a Keith replacement would be a good thing and it would be nice to have a puck moving LD right about now. I REALLY liked how Byram elevated his play during the WHL playoffs. He was huge. I also agree with stan_bowman that the Hawks rush kids too fast. Why is Reichel in Rockford? Why not the WHL or DEL for one more year? Why did Boqvist only get 15 games in Rockford...Dach got literally 3.

Couldn’t agree more on reichel. I’d love him to get another season in the DEL. AHL feels more like a purgatory right now cuz he seems better than Rockford and not enough for Chicago right now. I don’t know, tough call. Boqvist you hit the nail on the head, but Dach never shoulda played in the nhl immediately.

Oct. 14, 2021 at 3:57 p.m.

#11

HatterTParty

Thread Starter

Joined: Jun. 2019

Posts: 2,351

Likes: 851

Quoting: Wadejos123

I would say Dach was clearly our best forward last night. If you want to be frusterated with any forward last night start with Kane. He created absultly zero offesivly the entire game till we pulled the goalie. Be mad at Johnson for two dumb penalties. Be mad at Borgstrom for being invisible. Yeah Dach needs to learn how to finish, but I would be waaayyy more concerned if he wasn't generating chances at all

No question your right. I addressed that in another comment on another thread too! Whole team was poor and really Dach might have been a lone bright spot albeit not taking his chances. This thread is more about Dach vs byram.

Wadejos123 liked this.

Oct. 14, 2021 at 3:59 p.m.

#12

HatterTParty

Thread Starter

Joined: Jun. 2019

Posts: 2,351

Likes: 851

Quoting: exo2769

I think this is mostly your bias right now. I admit I was a Byram guy, but he's played 1 game and in sheltered minutes on the bottom pair. They also play a really aggressive game and pounced on a team that wasn't ready.

I don’t disagree with you with the analysis. Well said for sure! He was sheltered, but I will he was impactful in every way. However, them being aggressive against an unready team shouldn’t be a judgement against byram should it? The Avs are just a class above the hawks. No question.

exo2769 liked this.

Oct. 14, 2021 at 4:02 p.m.

#13

HatterTParty

Thread Starter

Joined: Jun. 2019

Posts: 2,351

Likes: 851

Quoting: coga16

dach will be good, hes going to be a handful for years to come

Just take into consideration that Dmen do not make the same impacts earlier on, especially at 18-19 years old like Byram was last season. Forwards have came into the league at 18-19 and been dynamite, Lots of time for both plaers to mold into their entering prime years, they are both super talented. Its hard to compare those 2 at 19 years old, Gotta do this when they are 23-24

You’re not wrong, in fact makar, hughes, and heiskanen may be the only dmen that made immediate impacts at young ages in the past few years. But byram looks to the confidence to be that guy now. Dach, I’m still not seeing it. He drives possession and plays a great defensive game, but the offense is still suspect to me. He puts himself in great spots but can’t put in a finished product. That concerns me. Yes, he’s young. But many hawks fans told me to wait till byram is in the league to bash Dach. Well he’s here, and he just dunked on us in round 1.

Oct. 14, 2021 at 4:05 p.m.

#14

HatterTParty

Thread Starter

Joined: Jun. 2019

Posts: 2,351

Likes: 851

Quoting: ChiHawk

Actually, what you said in 2019 is you wanted Turcotte and if not him, then Byram before Dach. I was in alignment with you back then as well.

However, hindsight is 20/20 and takes a humble person to realize that was wrong. Today Turcotte versus Dach...I'll take Dach every day of the week and hopefully you aren't foolish to not realize that as well. To say Byram looked much better then Dach last night is also wrong; Byram is playing on a much better more talented elite team...that's about the only thing you should have taken away.

ChiHawk, I don’t think there’s a conceivable way for us to have a civil conversation on this site. Forget about Turcotte. This is Dach and byram. If your telling me cuz I put turcotte in the conversation that’s what I’m held to, have fun. Otherwise, byram dunked on Dach, round 1 to byram.

Oct. 14, 2021 at 4:16 p.m.

#15

TheEarthmaster

Good Opinion Haver

Joined: Jun. 2018

Posts: 1,834

Likes: 938

I think Pang is half right about Dach's shot, in that I do think he has a good one, but from what I've seen and read about Dach is that his shot is a complement to the real asset he has, which is his vision. He was always able to see things really well at lower levels in his career which allowed him to score goals that no one else could score (a testament to his finishing), but it also helped him in his playmaking which is how he was able to rack up the assists in the WHL. I don't think he's quite figured that out at the NHL level yet, but he's only 20 years old.

That said, Byram was always the better prospect, and a lot of people criticized Chicago at the time for reaching on Dach when Byram (and others) were available. In that sense, Dach is probably unfairly going to have to be compared to someone like Byram when you really can't blame a player for getting picked too high. But it's only been one game, Byram played not near as tough of minutes as Dach last night and he plays on a much better team. I do think Byram is going to be the better player (even though comparing a defenseman to a forward is apples to oranges in some regards) but it's much too early to make any definitive statements about Byram's progression or Dach's lack therof and Dach is still going to be a good player in this league. It may be as simple as "he was picked ahead of better players", and like I said, not his fault.

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Oct. 14, 2021 at 4:20 p.m.

#16

ChiHawk

Joined: Apr. 2017

Posts: 19,029

Likes: 9,331

Quoting: HatterTParty

ChiHawk, I don’t think there’s a conceivable way for us to have a civil conversation on this site. Forget about Turcotte. This is Dach and byram. If your telling me cuz I put turcotte in the conversation that’s what I’m held to, have fun. Otherwise, byram dunked on Dach, round 1 to byram.

Hatter, I'm simply bringing up that you wanted Turcotte in 2019 first contrary to what you stated above who Dach is simply a better pick then at this point and it's not close.

That said, how do you objectively look at a defensive player on a elite team comparably to a center on middling team and say one was better then other and "dunked on Dach"? I never saw Byram "dunk" on Dach or take Dach out during last night's game; I know that's not your point but that would be the best way to compare the two is head on head matchup. If anything, objectively speaking, Dach proved more valuable given he was the Hawks best player versus byram looking good surrounded by an elite team with an elite system in a sheltered role. Put Dach on the Avs and you don't think he'd displace Kadri or at a minimum Newhook flanked by better talent around him and look even better?

There's plenty of conceivable ways to have civil objective discussions as I do with 95% of others, but not so much when people throw subjective bias (someone else here mentioned that as well) in the air and fail to look at things objectively speaking. Dach played lights out, Byram played lights out...the difference is who surrounds them and the positions they play...saying one is better then the other last night is a fool's errand as others are telling you. Dach is a fantastic prospect and proving the critics, me included in 2019, wrong.

Oct. 14, 2021 at 4:21 p.m.

#17

HatterTParty

Thread Starter

Joined: Jun. 2019

Posts: 2,351

Likes: 851

Quoting: TheEarthmaster

I think Pang is half right about Dach's shot, in that I do think he has a good one, but from what I've seen and read about Dach is that his shot is a complement to the real asset he has, which is his vision. He was always able to see things really well at lower levels in his career which allowed him to score goals that no one else could score (a testament to his finishing), but it also helped him in his playmaking which is how he was able to rack up the assists in the WHL. I don't think he's quite figured that out at the NHL level yet, but he's only 20 years old.

That said, Byram was always the better prospect, and a lot of people criticized Chicago at the time for reaching on Dach when Byram (and others) were available. In that sense, Dach is probably unfairly going to have to be compared to someone like Byram when you really can't blame a player for getting picked too high. But it's only been one game, Byram played not near as tough of minutes as Dach last night and he plays on a much better team. I do think Byram is going to be the better player (even though comparing a defenseman to a forward is apples to oranges in some regards) but it's much too early to make any definitive statements about Byram's progression or Dach's lack therof and Dach is still going to be a good player in this league. It may be as simple as "he was picked ahead of better players", and like I said, not his fault.

Well said! I literally don’t have much to add to that.

TheEarthmaster liked this.

Oct. 14, 2021 at 4:26 p.m.

#18

HatterTParty

Thread Starter

Joined: Jun. 2019

Posts: 2,351

Likes: 851

Quoting: ChiHawk

Hatter, I'm simply bringing up that you wanted Turcotte in 2019 first contrary to what you stated above who Dach is simply a better pick then at this point and it's not close.

That said, how do you objectively look at a defensive player on a elite team comparably to a center on middling team and say one was better then other and "dunked on Dach"? I never saw Byram "dunk" on Dach or take Dach out during last night's game; I know that's not your point but that would be the best way to compare the two is head on head matchup. If anything, objectively speaking, Dach proved more valuable given he was the Hawks best player versus byram looking good surrounded by an elite team with an elite system in a sheltered role. Put Dach on the Avs and you don't think he'd displace Kadri or at a minimum Newhook flanked by better talent around him and look even better?

There's plenty of conceivable ways to have civil objective discussions as I do with 95% of others, but not so much when you throw subjective bias (someone else here mentioned that as well) in the air and fail to look at things objectively speaking. Dach played lights out, Byram played lights out...the difference is who surrounds them and the positions they play...saying one is better then the other last night is a fool's errand as others are telling you.

I said a while back I’ll stay off your threads if you’d stay off mine. Granted I’ve quoted others comments on your threads, so I apologize for the infraction. What I said then I still stands now, take care and be well.

Oct. 14, 2021 at 6:01 p.m.

#19

ChiHawk

Joined: Apr. 2017

Posts: 19,029

Likes: 9,331

Edited Oct. 14, 2021 at 6:26 p.m.

Quoting: HatterTParty

I said a while back I’ll stay off your threads if you’d stay off mine. Granted I’ve quoted others comments on your threads, so I apologize for the infraction. What I said then I still stands now, take care and be well.

You've been posting on my threads including as recently as last week, BUT it's a public forum and that invites any and all to comment whether you agree or like the comments or not...no problems here. I'm not into personal vendettas we are adults and it's okay not to agree or to get holes punched in your own point of view; that is part of the intent of discussion and disagreements on any forum. If you are looking for an echo chamber there are plenty of those fan sites for that but this one tends to be more objective generally speaking at least with the regulars. No need to apologize, I don't mind you commenting on my threads just be ready for a good debate.

Oct. 14, 2021 at 6:39 p.m.

#20

exo2769

Joined: Jul. 2015

Posts: 15,644

Likes: 9,766

Landy got two games. I was looking for 1.

Oct. 14, 2021 at 6:41 p.m.

#21

HatterTParty

Thread Starter

Joined: Jun. 2019

Posts: 2,351

Likes: 851

Quoting: exo2769

Landy got two games. I was looking for 1.

I get it, considering what others were asking for, I do understand.

exo2769 liked this.

Oct. 14, 2021 at 6:56 p.m.

#22

exo2769

Joined: Jul. 2015

Posts: 15,644

Likes: 9,766

Quoting: HatterTParty

I get it, considering what others were asking for, I do understand.

Wasn't attacking or meaning to attack. Just an update

Oct. 14, 2021 at 7:46 p.m.

#23

HatterTParty

Thread Starter

Joined: Jun. 2019

Posts: 2,351

Likes: 851

Quoting: exo2769

Wasn't attacking or meaning to attack. Just an update

No no! Definitely didn’t think you were, no worries! I mean I get the length. Considering others were crying out for 5, two really is understandable. I was with you, I thought 1.

exo2769 liked this.

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