Forums/Armchair-GM

What Marner and Tavares Combined 22M Could Have Been Used On

Created by: UpsideDownQue
Initial Creation Date: Oct. 30, 2021
Published: Oct. 30, 2021
Team: 2021-22 Toronto Maple Leafs
Team Explanation
You cant convince me that this isnt better than the actual Leafs
Trades
1.
TOR
  1. Toffoli, Tyler
MTL
    2.
    TOR
    1. Saad, Brandon
    STL
      3.
      TOR
      1. Tatar, Tomas
      NJD
        4.
        TOR
        1. Danault, Phillip
        LAK
          5.
          TOR
          1. Tanev, Christopher
          CGY
            Retained Salary Transactions
            • Phil Kessel: $1,200,000 (15%)
            Buried
            • Pierre Engvall: $125,000 ($1,250,000)
            DRAFT YEARROUND 1ROUND 2ROUND 3ROUND 4ROUND 5ROUND 6ROUND 7
            2022
            Logo of the TOR
            Logo of the TOR
            Logo of the TOR
            2023
            Logo of the TOR
            Logo of the TOR
            Logo of the TOR
            Logo of the TOR
            Logo of the TOR
            Logo of the TOR
            2024
            Logo of the TOR
            Logo of the TOR
            Logo of the TOR
            Logo of the TOR
            Logo of the TOR
            Logo of the TOR
            Logo of the TOR
            ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
            23$81,500,000$80,860,116$0$400,000$639,884
            Left WingCenterRight Wing
            Logo of the STL
            Saad, Brandon
            $4,500,000
            LW, RW
            NTC
            UFA - 5
            Logo of the TOR
            Matthews, Auston
            $11,640,250
            C
            UFA - 3
            Logo of the TOR
            Nylander, William
            $6,962,366
            RW, LW
            UFA - 3
            Logo of the NJD
            Tatar, Tomas
            $4,500,000
            LW, RW
            UFA - 2
            Logo of the LAK
            Danault, Phillip
            $5,500,000
            C
            NMC
            UFA - 6
            Logo of the MTL
            Toffoli, Tyler
            $4,250,000
            RW, LW
            UFA - 3
            Logo of the TOR
            Ritchie, Nick
            $2,500,000
            LW
            UFA - 2
            Logo of the TOR
            Kerfoot, Alexander
            $3,500,000
            LW, C
            UFA - 2
            Logo of the TOR
            Kase, Ondrej
            $1,250,000
            RW
            RFA - 1
            Logo of the TOR
            Bunting, Michael
            $950,000
            LW
            UFA - 2
            Logo of the TOR
            Kämpf, David
            $1,500,000
            C, RW
            UFA - 2
            Logo of the TOR
            Simmonds, Wayne
            $900,000
            RW, LW
            NTC
            UFA - 2
            Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
            Logo of the TOR
            Muzzin, Jake
            $5,625,000
            LD
            NTC
            UFA - 3
            Logo of the TOR
            Brodie, TJ
            $5,000,000
            LD/RD
            NTC
            UFA - 3
            Logo of the TOR
            Mrázek, Petr
            $3,800,000
            G
            NTC
            UFA - 3
            Logo of the TOR
            Rielly, Morgan
            $5,000,000
            LD
            NMC
            UFA - 1
            Logo of the CGY
            Tanev, Christopher
            $4,500,000
            RD
            NTC
            UFA - 3
            Logo of the TOR
            Campbell, Jack
            $1,650,000
            G
            UFA - 1
            Logo of the TOR
            Sandin, Rasmus
            $894,167
            LD/RD
            RFA - 1
            Logo of the TOR
            Dermott, Travis
            $1,500,000
            LD/RD
            RFA - 2
            ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
            Logo of the TOR
            Spezza, Jason
            $750,000
            C, RW
            UFA - 1
            Logo of the TOR
            Mikheyev, Ilya
            $1,645,000
            LW, RW
            UFA - 1
            Logo of the TOR
            Holl, Justin
            $2,000,000
            RD
            NTC
            UFA - 2
            Logo of the TOR
            Tavares, John
            $11,000,000
            C
            NMC
            UFA - 4
            Logo of the TOR
            Liljegren, Timothy
            $863,333
            RD
            RFA - 1
            Logo of the TOR
            Marner, Mitchell
            $10,903,000
            RW
            UFA - 4

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            Oct. 30, 2021 at 6:35 p.m.
            #1
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            In other words, a contender
            Oct. 30, 2021 at 6:36 p.m.
            #2
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            This makes them worse
            Oct. 30, 2021 at 6:36 p.m.
            #3
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            Quoting: sedin33
            In other words, a contender


            Not at all
            Oct. 30, 2021 at 6:37 p.m.
            #4
            Kasper to NYR
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            Not a fan of the goalie tandem. Swap Mrazek for Andersen wink
            Oct. 30, 2021 at 6:39 p.m.
            #5
            In Pridham we trust
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            What does skipping the Tavares signing 3+ years ago have to do with signings last summer and this summer??

            Also, Larsson was selected by Seattle and signed before UFA started.

            Finally, those Saad and Danualt deals will be anchors in a few years.
            Oct. 30, 2021 at 6:40 p.m.
            #6
            WeberAndTuckerGoats
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            Quoting: PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood
            This makes them worse


            No lmao. It's a far better and more balanced roster.
            Oct. 30, 2021 at 6:45 p.m.
            #7
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            if only dubas had let half the team walk in UFA in 2018, and had his 21 year old premier playmaking winger disappear so he could wait 3 years to sign tatar, saad, danault, toffoli, and tanev in the span of 9 months
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            Oct. 30, 2021 at 6:47 p.m.
            #8
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            Downgrading Marner and Tavares to sign a guy who was scratched in the playoffs, a middle 6 winger and #4 dman?
            Oct. 30, 2021 at 6:48 p.m.
            #9
            WeberAndTuckerGoats
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            Quoting: Barilko14
            What does skipping the Tavares signing 3+ years ago have to do with signings last summer and this summer??

            Also, Larsson was selected by Seattle and signed before UFA started.

            Finally, those Saad and Danualt deals will be anchors in a few years.


            Marner and Tavares are already anchors. Their contracts are holding a knife to the team's throat.

            But if by "anchor" you mean their value decrease by 50%, Tavares will be one soon enough. The guy's getting slower and slower. I take a 5.5M Danault over an 11M Tavares anytime.
            Oct. 30, 2021 at 6:48 p.m.
            #10
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            Makes them worse
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            Oct. 30, 2021 at 6:48 p.m.
            #11
            WeberAndTuckerGoats
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            Quoting: TheresAlwaysNextYear
            Downgrading Marner and Tavares to sign a guy who was scratched in the playoffs, a middle 6 winger and #4 dman?


            Even scratched, Tatar did more than Marner ever did in the playoffs. The Habs shouldn't have scratched him.
            Oct. 30, 2021 at 6:53 p.m.
            #12
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            Quoting: SheaWeber6
            No lmao. It's a far better and more balanced roster.


            This is just the usual Capfriendly Leafs suck mob think.
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            Oct. 30, 2021 at 6:55 p.m.
            #13
            WeberAndTuckerGoats
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            Quoting: PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood
            This is just the usual Capfriendly Leafs suck mob think.


            It's not. What have top-heavy teams accomplished in the salary cap era? Not much. All it took was our 1C being matched against Danault in the playoffs to witness our whole salary cap structure crumble. It simply doesn't work.
            Oct. 30, 2021 at 7:15 p.m.
            #14
            Days of our Hawks
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            Should be considering firing Kyle Dubas
            oilersguy liked this.
            Oct. 30, 2021 at 7:24 p.m.
            #15
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            Quoting: Barilko14
            What does skipping the Tavares signing 3+ years ago have to do with signings last summer and this summer??

            Also, Larsson was selected by Seattle and signed before UFA started.

            Finally, those Saad and Danualt deals will be anchors in a few years.


            Nothing really. Obviously it wouldn't be a direct substitute of all of these players for Marner and Tavares but I'm just trying to get at the general notion that a higher number of good players on cheap/fair deals is better than a small number of players on very expensive deals

            Good point. I swapped him for Tanev

            And Tavares' deal won't be? He will be 34 when his deal expires just like Danault, but at twice the cap hit. Saad will be 33 when his deal expires. I think Danault and Saad's deals will age better than Tavares' deal
            Oct. 30, 2021 at 7:34 p.m.
            #16
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            Quoting: SheaWeber6
            It's not. What have top-heavy teams accomplished in the salary cap era? Not much. All it took was our 1C being matched against Danault in the playoffs to witness our whole salary cap structure crumble. It simply doesn't work.


            I mean, ask Tampa or Pittsburgh

            #micdrop
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            Oct. 30, 2021 at 7:41 p.m.
            #17
            WeberAndTuckerGoats
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            Quoting: littlejerryseinfeld
            I mean, ask Tampa or Pittsburgh

            #micdrop


            They compensated with quality depth, which the Leafs haven't been able to sniff in years.
            Oct. 30, 2021 at 7:51 p.m.
            #18
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            Quoting: littlejerryseinfeld
            I mean, ask Tampa or Pittsburgh

            #micdrop


            TBLs highest cap hit for 2020 and 2021 was 9.5M with an 81.5M cap. Thats 11.66% of the cap

            PITs highest cap hit for 2016 and 2017 was 9.5M with cap ceilings of 71.4M and 73M at the time. Thats 13.31% and 13.01% of the cap

            Compare that to the Leafs who have Matthews making 14.28% of the cap, Tavares making 13.50% of the cap, and Marner making 13.38% of the cap. Thats 3 players who make a higher % of the cap than any single player on PIT or TBL did in the years they won the cup

            Thats not exactly a direct comparable to the Leafs situation
            SheaWeber6 liked this.
            Oct. 30, 2021 at 8:04 p.m.
            #19
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            Quoting: UpsideDownQue
            TBLs highest cap hit for 2020 and 2021 was 9.5M with an 81.5M cap. Thats 11.66% of the cap

            PITs highest cap hit for 2016 and 2017 was 9.5M with cap ceilings of 71.4M and 73M at the time. Thats 13.31% and 13.01% of the cap

            Compare that to the Leafs who have Matthews making 14.28% of the cap, Tavares making 13.50% of the cap, and Marner making 13.38% of the cap. Thats 3 players who make a higher % of the cap than any single player on PIT or TBL did in the years they won the cup

            Thats not exactly a direct comparable to the Leafs situation


            Contracts weren't all signed at the same time and I'm talking about the years the contracts were signed

            Pitt and Tampa clearly had high end contracts.

            I hate the Leafs too, but atleast be right
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            Oct. 30, 2021 at 8:34 p.m.
            #20
            In Pridham we trust
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            Edited Oct. 30, 2021 at 8:53 p.m.
            Quoting: UpsideDownQue
            Nothing really. Obviously it wouldn't be a direct substitute of all of these players for Marner and Tavares but I'm just trying to get at the general notion that a higher number of good players on cheap/fair deals is better than a small number of players on very expensive deals

            Good point. I swapped him for Tanev

            And Tavares' deal won't be? He will be 34 when his deal expires just like Danault, but at twice the cap hit. Saad will be 33 when his deal expires. I think Danault and Saad's deals will age better than Tavares' deal


            Marner is 24 yo. When should they have gotten rid of him??

            Trade him at 22 yo coming off a 90 pt season. How many times is that player traded? Please show me that list. At that point he's on pace to be Patrick Kane or better, but yeah, better trade him to improve their depth. No chance that looks incredibly stupid.

            In your opinion when the Leafs were talking about needing to fill that 3C hole and that 2nd pair RD a couple of years ago, they start with their 22 yo 90 pt winger that finished top 15 in selke voting. That's really what people are suggesting? Should everyone start the trade Ratanen threads now before the big MacKinnon extension. Jost isn't looking great at 3C, that probably the best way for Colorado to plug that hole.

            Mitch Marner is literally the 2nd best player the Leafs have had in the last 30 years, but gee I sure wish they had Saad and Tanev instead!

            Also. Tavares is elite. When you get a shot at an elite player and it costs nothing but $$, you take it.

            If the cap is $88m this season, people aren't whining about this. If Galchenyuk or Dermott don't cough up the puck in OT in game 5/6. Games the Leafs outplayed Mtl, people aren't whining about this.

            Also quantity does not equal quality.

            Except when it comes to the Leafs when of course, Depth >>>>>> stars
            Oct. 30, 2021 at 8:55 p.m.
            #21
            In Pridham we trust
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            Quoting: littlejerryseinfeld
            Contracts weren't all signed at the same time and I'm talking about the years the contracts were signed

            Pitt and Tampa clearly had high end contracts.

            I hate the Leafs too, but atleast be right


            Just gotta say, you rank really high on my list of sensible Leaf haters.
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            Oct. 30, 2021 at 9:11 p.m.
            #22
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            Quoting: littlejerryseinfeld
            Contracts weren't all signed at the same time and I'm talking about the years the contracts were signed

            Pitt and Tampa clearly had high end contracts.

            I hate the Leafs too, but atleast be right


            Who cares when they were signed. As of right now the leafs have too many players making too much money

            I get that the cap has been stagnant for a couple years and nobody could have predicted that, but it is what it is. The PIT and TBL situations were completely different
            Oct. 30, 2021 at 9:16 p.m.
            #23
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            Quoting: Barilko14
            Marner is 24 yo. When should they have gotten rid of him??

            Trade him at 22 yo coming off a 90 pt season. How many times is that player traded? Please show me that list. At that point he's on pace to be Patrick Kane or better, but yeah, better trade him to improve their depth. No chance that looks incredibly stupid.

            In your opinion when the Leafs were talking about needing to fill that 3C hole and that 2nd pair RD a couple of years ago, they start with their 22 yo 90 pt winger that finished top 15 in selke voting. That's really what people are suggesting? Should everyone start the trade Ratanen threads now before the big MacKinnon extension. Jost isn't looking great at 3C, that probably the best way for Colorado to plug that hole.

            Mitch Marner is literally the 2nd best player the Leafs have had in the last 30 years, but gee I sure wish they had Saad and Tanev instead!

            Also. Tavares is elite. When you get a shot at an elite player and it costs nothing but $$, you take it.

            If the cap is $88m this season, people aren't whining about this. If Galchenyuk or Dermott don't cough up the puck in OT in game 5/6. Games the Leafs outplayed Mtl, people aren't whining about this.

            Also quantity does not equal quality.

            Except when it comes to the Leafs when of course, Depth >>>>>> stars


            What are you talking about? I never said they should have traded Marner. All I said was that "a higher number of good players on cheap/fair deals is better than a small number of players on very expensive deals" and that the imaginary team I created above is better than the current Leafs team
            Oct. 30, 2021 at 9:21 p.m.
            #24
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            Quoting: UpsideDownQue
            Who cares when they were signed. As of right now the leafs have too many players making too much money

            I get that the cap has been stagnant for a couple years and nobody could have predicted that, but it is what it is. The PIT and TBL situations were completely different


            You are simply wrong
            Oct. 30, 2021 at 9:26 p.m.
            #25
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            Quoting: littlejerryseinfeld
            You are simply wrong


            Its mathematically correct though... The Leafs have 3 players who make a higher % of the current salary cap than any single player on TBL or PIT did in the years they won the cup. Thats a fact. You can say that the Leafs expected the cap to rise over time, and that would have been a very reasonable expectation at the time before COVID, but at the end of the day the current situation the Leafs are in is not the same as the situation TBL was in between 19-20 and 20-21 and is not the same situation that PIT was in between 15-16 and 16-17. Im not saying its the Leafs fault for not predicting the stagnant cap, but thats just the position they are in right now
             
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