Common sense suggests that the massive cap hit difference > minimal gap in skill. Marner has 3 points in 9 games and is making top 5 salary in the NHL? if the leafs are in a "win now mode" how do you suggest they do that when they paying 5 players 50% of the salary cap? most NHL rosters are 22-23 players. Raymond and Marner are both 4th round picks in really solid drafts... "potentially they would have similar trajectories"

He will end up having more success in Detroit, as Detroit is looking to start coming out of the rebuild. On the other hand, you have Toronto, who has had no playoff success in 18 years. All in all, Detroit is more likely to end up winning the cup before Toronto does. Unless Toronto gets rid of a big contract, they really don’t have a chance at winning the cup.

That's cool. You completely ignored my reason as to why Raymond wouldn't do well in Toronto.

At least you qualified it with "I'd know DET would never do this"

I say it every time, Detroit says no but if marner was a center then you could atleast argue it.

Common sense also suggest that comparing 2 players when one has a grand total of 9 games under his belt is ludicrous. Marner is a career shade under a point per game, and that's due to his slow start this season. He's also in his 6th year at that pace, Raymond hasn't played ten games.

Raymond has had a hot start to his career, but let's slow down on giving him Gretzky's records and see how he pans out at the very least over a full season.

"Raymond has had a hot start to his career" what if this isnt just a "hot start" and this is what you can actually expect from him? YOU ARE also missing the bigger picture which is why almost EVERY leaf post is trading Marner.... he makes WAYYYYY TOOO MUCH MONEY. im not comparing players im comparing the positive effects this trade would have moving forward. imagine having an extra 10 million to spend on upgrades throughout your entire roster... while also adding a young high level talent who may or may not be Marner level but even if hes half as good its still a massive W for TML bc of the amount of cap space they no have..... Common sense AGAIN would suggest cap space/ team friendly deals are needed to winning. Team depth on the bottom 6? stuff like that...

If Lucas Raymond is a point per game at 19 than he should be demanding 11 million dollars as well. The salary cap is fundamentality broken if the best players in the league are required to take discounts in order to win.

Trading the best player in the deal for a what if is bad asset management. Especially if they are adding Dermott and the second pick to the mix and getting nothing of substance in return. Raymond COULD be on the same level as Marner, but he has played 9 games thus far, you can't make any realistic assumption based on that.

But let's talk about the cap space. Sure, 10M extra space would be nice. And Raymond would most definitely have success with TOR. Where do they spend that 10M? Look to free agency? Well you're likely overpaying for someone much older than Marner. Trade for other teams younger players? Sure, but you need assets and you've just given up Dermott and a second round pick in this trade. Now, before anyone seriously overreacts, Dermott and the second are obviously not cornerstone pieces in deals, but they could be the added piece that actually gets a deal done. Toronto is also in no position to be dealing any of their own D prospects and will need the cheap help up front for the foreseeable future.

If the argument is now strictly financial, I have no problem overpaying a high end young player in his prime then use that money to overpay two middle of the pack older players and call it "depth".

Just so we are clear, I am in no way saying DET should make this trade. Stay the course.

OK so Toronto fans don't want this trade to happen.

and

Detroit fans don't want the trade to happen.

So why are we arguing when both sides want the same thing???

" The salary cap is fundamentality broken if the best players in the league are required to take discounts in order to win" Crosby willing took 8.7m and the results speak for themselves. Mackinon openly said he's willing to take a "discount" to win. Landeskog. took a little less so did RNH.... its not required / expected but if you are taking most of the money there will be way less for others... and when you are paying for lesser players there will be a talent drop... hypothetically. What do you suggest no cap? raise it? turn the NHL into the MLB?

i think it the cap is in place so teams do have 5 of the best players are on the same roster.... unless they are will to take "discounts to stay"

When Crosby signed his current contract, it was worth 14.5% of the salary cap. An equivalent amount to the current salary cap would be $11,817,500. Not sure I'd call that a discount, unless of course you're implying that Crosby should've asked for the maximum allowable contract, than yeah, probably.

Bird Rights and a luxury tax would be a good way to fix the salary cap. Wouldn't allow the richer teams to spend excessively and would allow smaller teams to be able to hold on to their players.

Crosby at the time was considered the best player in the NHL and i believe he had multiple 100 point seasons and was just coming off going to a cup final. (also had an MVP?) Yeah he was 100% able to ask for cap max but he sign for even less than his comparable Ovechkin. if im using TML as an example Matthews got paid like a Oveckin when hes more like a Stamkos (great player similar stats) i think they could have paid him 10m Marner ideally 9-9.5... Nylander contract is actually becoming a steal... Mo signed for a great price and JT imo wasnt needed BUT at the time his deal was "fair" based off market value

"Bird Rights and a luxury tax would be a good way to fix the salary cap" im not completely fimilar but based off your history on this site its worth looking into... your opinion is one of the few on this site i respect a lot

Bird Rights is a financial rule in the NBA where you're allowed to spend over the cap limit if the player you're signing has been on the team for a certain number of years - believe it's three. It's the reason you see a ton of sign-and-trades in the NBA; because the rights will transfer as long as the player doesn't test free agency.

Would need to be modified for the NHL, but it'd be a similar premise.

that would be awesome reward for teams (Leafs) that have done a great job developing their prospects... (unless i misunderstood )

Has anyone else in this thread gone to high school? Yet?

1967.
The Wings don’t want Marner. Stevie will take him for scraps when you are desperate to make cap/payroll next year.

I wouldn't make this trade even if Raymond suffered a season ending injury tonight and Marner scored a hat trick.

The leafs are in a cap hell of their own making and I am all about it