😵‍💫 All I know is that when I slid Weber into the LTIR slot, his entire cap hit disappeared…

Remember MTL fans pissed saying TBL cheated being 15m over the Cap?
Well it was Dirty but not Cheating
They used LTIR cap dumps to maximize their cap space
Its why they didnt get penalties and additional cap hit taken this year like CHI did when they did it to TBL
(CHI was over like 1.1m or something small that carried over but they also expertly used LTIR)

Should have said up to 80%. But either way, I still don't understand how that increases your cap space

Long Story Short
Weber would cancel out the Suter buyout cap hit for most of its years

Right, but if you make a team on this site where MTL gives you Weber, our cap space goes down by Webers amount, and then when you put him on LTIR it goes away, but it's still the same number it started at. It doesn't magically go up by $7.9M

Greenway was just signed to 3 years extension to be on Joel Eriksson Ek and foligno line. This isn't about greenway being happy. He signed the extension because he's happy in Minnesota. Guerin also made it clear he's not breaking up the line.

Again, it's not realistic this will ever happen

Think of it as not being the Standard opporating perameters
Instead an Abuse of Rules put in place to ensure Injuries dont handcuff Contending teams from filling holes

This is less about being Under the Cap
More about exploiting the rules to push it the the maximum cap possible without being Fined or taking a hit next year for it.
CHI and TBL both did it to win cups
CHI payed like 1.1m or somethings and TBL paid like 100k both due to Performance bonus's being triggered not the penalty for the actual base Cap/Contract itself

Its not about what Legally Acceptable
Its more about what you can Legally Exploit until they change the rules to stop it

How did you come to this conclusion?
The "savings" are only relative from cap hit to cash.

I'm sorry but you're saying despite no insurance in his contract to stop it that a GM cant trade him because he's happy?
Tyler F'n Toffoli as MSL said "was our Captain even if he didnt have the C" and Suzuki was upset as Toffoli decided to come here to be his Mentor doing it well.
Even with his "Born to be a Habs " article that was really quite touching or his Wife being widely loved and accepted in Quebec which is rare (Angela Price is the only other one)
There was every reason including him signing here below market value on our terms

In the end he was happy because we traded him somewhere he'll be used well
He's happy to see us succeeding and Happy that he is as well

As Toffoli said "Pro hockey's a business , this isnt pick up with your friends "

Correct. The cap doesn’t actually go up, but the Wild can be over the cap this summer and then put Weber on the LTIR and get $7.9m in cap relief.

But more or less those savings will cover what Suter's buyout in this case equals
Correct?

Way better said than I could have mustered!

It provides some relief to go above cap ceiling. Since MIN is just under cap now, if they added Weber, they would need $5.5 million that would come in LTIR relief. But they would be adding $7.8m cap hit, so it would give them less room to maneuver.

A few things I see going on here:

1. There is an off-season benefit (but things have to line up perfectly). Say you are at $81m with $82m cap and need Fiala to resign. And say he wants $10m a year. Off-season rules would allow you add 110% of cap ceiling onto roster ($90.2m). So the most you could sign Fiala for would be $9.2m (90.2 - 81 = 9.2). But if you add LTIRetired player at $8m a year, you be at $89m with $90m ceiling and off-season limit of $99m. So then you could sign Fiala at $10m a year (99 - 89 = 10). This was the Marner / Clarkson example a few years ago. But there are few instances where this actually helps.

2. There could be cash-flow reasons that could be beneficial if they are moving other cap out. And I think some a confusing these "savings" with a reduction in buyout penalties. They are not related and there is no way to pay down one with the other.

3. Insurance is completely unrelated. And each policy is taken out by teams as they see fit. Some policies are transferable, some are not. Considering the size of Weber's contract and his age, I am sure that the Habs had a policy on him. And we have no idea if that policy is transferable. If its not, a new team would not be able to get insurance on him now. But this is all cash flow conversation for the team and completed unrelated to salary cap.

Yeah, a player just signed to 3 years extension that hasn't even started is going to be traded. People here don't live in reality. Our gm also made it clear he's not breaking up the line of Joel Eriksson Ek and foligno with greenway. This is very simple, a gm doesn't sign player to extension to trade them

I still don't see how that lets us exceed the cap limit if all our other players contracts are still above the projected $82.5M ceiling.

For example:
Say our players (other than Weber) are signed above the ceiling in the offseason, say $83.5M. We acquire Weber (for simplicity, using $8M for his cap hit), and we'd be at $91.5M cap hit. You put him on LTIR, gaining $8M in relief, but that still puts you over the cap at $83.5M...

Provide the Quotes
Its REALLY bizarre for a GM to dictate line combinations
As a rule the generic comment they all give is "coaching decisions are coaches calls"

Go look it up. Guerin made the comment when he resigned him. Guerin has always had a say in lineup decisions since he got here. When the line was broken apart, they were put together and have been Dominant since being put together. that is why greenway was resigned and why Guerin made it clear he has no intention of breaking the 3 of them up

But in your Fiala example you're still over the cap by $7M when the season starts and would still be subject to penalty

The Onus isnt on me to prove your point
Why would i try to Prove your arguement Fact?

Yeah i dunno anymore
I thought i was catching on to what he was saying
I clearly was not lol


All i know is TBL used it last year to avoid real penalties
I get who they used and that there was no real penalties
Beyond that i appear to be confused as to the how or why still

Seabrook was traded to dump Johnson, which was the real cap savings for them. But we would need to fit Webers deal under the cap before putting him on LTI then they just open up the space they used on Weber. Maybe they could get move deadline flexibility with that LTI pool but the don’t get more space. And it’s a dangerous game going to LTI when Boldy and Rossi are gonna get their full bonuses.

Can show you others also. I will never understand how on this site people believe a GM that just signed a player to extension will trade them without their new contract starting, something that doesn't happen in NHL

https://mobile.twitter.com/PONDcast/status/1488256790185734145

"Tampa Bay acquired contracts of LTIR Marian Gaborik ($4.875M) and LTIR Anders Nilsson ($2.6M) from Ottawa, in exchange for veteran Brayden Coburn, versatile depth forward Cedrique Paquette and a 2022 2nd round draft pick. Tampa Bay acquires $7.475M in LTIR contracts while shedding $3.35M in active contracts. This transaction grants TB the ability to spend $4.125M more through LTIR contracts and ensures that the Lightning are cap compliant and have valuable cap flexibility ahead of the 2020-21 season. This ability to retain most of his Stanley Cup championship core of players and leveraging CBA rules around LTIR contracts speaks to the GM of the Year nominee. It is worth noting that Coburn has a NMC which may have prevented the transaction from being concluded, and yet GM BriseBois was able to secure approval of his veteran defenseman prior to the trade"


- thehockeycode.com/nhl-salary-cap-analysis/

"We signed a player to this contract because *Lists Reasons* and this Player was happy to have signed a Contract "

Wow sounds like every press release ever made
In Proper English he sounded like he was trying to Justify his choice in Term
Sounds like Marc Bergavin talking about his Andrew Shaw deal

You Clearly have no idea how Guerin value his players like foligno, greenway, Hartman, ek, etc.. also Michael Russo who covers wild has made it clear he's going nowhere.