Thats our point. The Ducks get to set the price and if other teams dont like it they wont get under the cap ceiling

There is 0 reason to take a cap hit just because

Well if you can’t take advantage of that cap space to acquire assets then what is it really worth?

I’m just not sure ur right about how much leverage you have. Your asking prices imply you have a gun up to Kyle Dubas’s head lmao. 🤷‍♂️

Do you not understand thats my whole stance

to take full advantage of cap space and get the absolute most possible

No I understand ur point. I’m saying that I don’t think u can get what ur asking for and if u hold out too long u could end up getting nothing 🤷‍♂️

5 teams in the NHL have leverage in a deal for any cap hit over 4.5M ANA, ARI, BUF, CHI and DET

Any other team in the league has 0 leverage in a deal like this

It isnt debatable its just a fact. Look at the cap space teams need to clear and look at the teams with room for it, the evidence is in the numbers

It's the cost of cap mismanagement and keeping Stanley cup dreams alive. Or Toronto can flush another year of Matthes and Marners contracts down the drain with another first round exit, and Tavares isn't getting any younger either.

Either way, Anaheim is fine to stay the course we are on, we have LD that need the ice time to continue their development that we would much rather play. I think Dubas is going to find himself up **** creek if he tries to wait until the preseason to make his decision.

Maybe you can take on one year contracts for a 2nd. Outside of that I don’t c u getting what u want for multiyear deals.

You seriously think it's a 1st plus a bunch of additional assets to get someone to take Muzz? When has there ever been that much sent as part of a "cap dump"?

Muzzin's decline has been fairly overblown (which is SHOCKING since nothing is ever exaggerated about Leafs players...). He was injured for a fair bit of last season, and certainly has slowed down a bit, but he had a strong playoffs, and only has 2 years left on a reasonable hit for a likely top 4 defenseman. For example, a team just willingly signed Gudbranson for 4 x $4mil and he's a much lesser player. Teams value the type of game Muzzin brings.

Do I think the Leafs will get much or any return for him? No, probably not. It's possible it's even a Pacioretty-style trade where it's just future considerations coming back. Cap space is scarce and player values are inextricably linked to their contract at this point. But a 1st rounder + a bunch of assets just to get someone to take Muzzin is absurd.

If TOR/NYI etc hold out to long there wont be teams with cap space

The Ducks dont need to make a trade, teams over the cap are the ones on a clock

5 teams can afford Muzzin without sending cap back
Dont see him waiving for ARI or CHI
That leaves ANA, BUF and DET

When has there ever been a global pandemic that froze the cap and greatly cut into revenue?

The Leafs dont have a shred of leverage if they decide to move Muzzin, Even Muzzin himself has more leverage than TOR with his trade protection

Not saying the Leafs should do it, but why does ANA for any less

Patches was different completely and isnt even remotely comparable. CAR is a Stanley Cup contender, all the teams that can take on Muzzin at this point are rebuilding

Dubas is a lame duck GM at this point imo

Both teams have assets with value. There is less talent available league wide than there is cap space. Not saying Muzzin is the guy u want to take, but it’s a good draft so that’s not a bad offer.

Not bad but why wouldnt you as a GM hold out as long as possible to get more

ANA could start the season with their current roster and be perfectly happy

Teams over the cap have a limited amount of time (and trade partners) to get under the ceiling

Not sure ur right about that. Isles aren’t under pressure to do anything unless the Kadri rumors r true and I’m not sure they could move ten million in salary anyway and remain competitive.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen or ever will c an NHL Gm move a first to dump a productive player. In Muzzin’s case he is an injury risk tho so I get it.

Right, but Toronto also just doesn't have to move Muzzin. They don't need leverage since they don't need to trade him. If Anaheim is asking for like a 1st + a top prospect, that's obviously a non-starter. The Leafs have a full roster, Sandin will likely make less than $2mil, and they really only need to move someone in the Kerfoot-range. There's absolutely no need to make the trade you've suggested.

Dubas dumping a 1st to move Marleau?

Marleau wasn’t productive

Then they dont move muzzin, and ANA could care less

Wasnt suggesting any trade, was saying ANA doesnt take on Muzzin without some serious compensation

Ive been saying all offseason it doesnt make sense for the Leafs

But im talking from a Ducks perspective

You keep ignoring the key point here. The issue isn't between whether to acquire Sandin or not -- the answer to that would be Yes. The issue is whether to acquire Sandin at the cost of losing Roy. The answer to that is (a) certainly not in the short run, and (b) questionable in the long run, because Sandin is not a prospect on the level of, say, Power or Hughes or even Jake Sanderson. On balance, that adds up to No.

Also highly suspicious here (i.e., adding to doubt about value) is the fact that Sandin hasn't re-signed yet. If we take him on and it turns out his demand is higher than Mikey Anderson's or Sean Durzi's, we will have made a terrible, horrible, no-good, horrible mistake.

Hard no from LA.

I agree 110% in that regard and wish I had mentioned it in my original comment

I kind of think a Muzzin trade just doesn't happen now. They (the Leafs) will go into the season probably with 7D assuming Sandin signs. I could see a Muzzin move happening later if Gio still has enough to play third pair and Sandin/Lily progress as hoped. By the deadline it's possible teams that are contending experience their own injuries to a top 4 guy, or a team making a surprise run wants to add. Cap hits become a fair bit more palatable when the cap space is pro-rated near the deadline.

When has there ever been a player of Max Pacioretty's quality not just traded for Future Considerations but with the sweetener of an A prospect RhD thrown in?

Citing the absence of precedent in an unprecedented environment isn't a very compelling argument. (Not that I think we'll get a first plus for Muzzin -- I think that's overboard -- but that my friend @Salzy is right in thinking that there's no motive for us to do anything without an incentive.)