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Stop trading for ChychrunOthers - Discuss

Created by: GSGHARRIS
Team: 2023-24 Ottawa Senators
Initial Creation Date: Sep. 7, 2022
Published: Sep. 23, 2022
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Description
All of the Sens core (minus Debrincat) have been locked up long term. We know what the spending will be moving forward so every trade you are thinking about, ask yourself. Would I rather have Chychrun/P.Kane/Karlsson @50% etc etc OR would I rather have Debrincat. All of the trades boil down to that question.

If you're able to move Zaitsev for a pick, it opens the option to have Talbot or another experienced goalie come back or up the Pinto dollars for more term.

I think 4 Mil avg for Zub is fair but maybe his camp seeks an AVG of 5mil. Zaitsev doesn't need to be moved for a 1 for 1 swap with Chychrun, he needs to be moved to pay for Zub and Pinto.

There are 7! players here that are under 1 million to float the roster if the cap only rises 1 Million for next season and the Sens are still 350k over the ceiling.

I just don't see how it would work out but I'd like to hear your thoughts on it.
Free Agent Signings
RFAYEARSCAP HIT
1$900,000
4$3,000,000
1$900,000
8$9,500,000
2$2,000,000
UFAYEARSCAP HIT
5$4,000,000
Buyouts
Retained Salary Transactions
DraftRound 1Round 2Round 3Round 4Round 5Round 6Round 7
2023
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Logo of the OTT
Logo of the OTT
Logo of the OTT
Logo of the OTT
Logo of the NSH
2024
Logo of the OTT
Logo of the OTT
Logo of the WSH
Logo of the OTT
Logo of the TBL
Logo of the OTT
Logo of the OTT
2025
Logo of the OTT
Logo of the OTT
Logo of the OTT
Logo of the OTT
Logo of the OTT
Logo of the OTT
Logo of the OTT
ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
20$83,500,000$83,840,713$0$2,275,000-$340,713

Roster

Left WingCentreRight Wing
Logo of the Ottawa Senators
$9,500,000$9,500,000
LW, RW
UFA - 4
Logo of the Ottawa Senators
$8,350,000$8,350,000
C
UFA - 8
Logo of the Ottawa Senators
$6,500,000$6,500,000
RW, C
NMC
UFA - 2
Logo of the Ottawa Senators
$8,205,714$8,205,714
LW
UFA - 5
Logo of the Ottawa Senators
$7,950,000$7,950,000
C
UFA - 7
Logo of the Ottawa Senators
$4,975,000$4,975,000
RW, LW
UFA - 4
Logo of the Ottawa Senators
$3,000,000$3,000,000
LW
RFA
Logo of the Ottawa Senators
$2,000,000$2,000,000
C
RFA - 1
Logo of the Ottawa Senators
$2,950,000$2,950,000
LW, RW
UFA - 3
Logo of the Ottawa Senators
$762,500$762,500
LW
RFA - 1
Logo of the Ottawa Senators
$863,333$863,333
C, LW
RFA - 2
Logo of the Ottawa Senators
$900,000$900,000
LW
RFA - 1
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
Logo of the Ottawa Senators
$8,000,000$8,000,000
LD
UFA - 5
Logo of the Ottawa Senators
$4,000,000$4,000,000
RD
UFA - 4
Logo of the Ottawa Senators
$2,750,000$2,750,000
G
UFA - 2
Logo of the Ottawa Senators
$863,333$863,333 (Performance Bonus$425,000$425K)
RD
RFA - 1
Logo of the Ottawa Senators
$925,000$925,000
G
RFA - 1
Logo of the Ottawa Senators
$925,000$925,000 (Performance Bonus$1,850,000$2M)
LD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Ottawa Senators
$900,000$900,000
RD
RFA - 2
Logo of the Ottawa Senators
$4,500,000$4,500,000
RD
M-NTC
UFA - 1

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Sep. 23, 2022 at 10:45 a.m.
#1
LongtimeLeafsufferer
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You are correct in your analysis. So many Ottawa CF posts do not appreciate the bonuses to paid and how it affects the cap, or the upcoming expensive RFA signings in 23/24.
And you have laid the cap roster for the Sens in 22/23. I still say the Giroux and his 3 year contract might have messed up the Sens in the final two years of his contract....despite being a good player, and the Sens ability to retain younger players.
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Sep. 23, 2022 at 10:48 a.m.
#2
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I've had a few... interesting conversations with Sens fans and I think so many are short-sighted. OTT has handled their rebuild very well. I get it, trust me, when you're going through a rebuild and you're getting close to being out of it you can get a bit impatient. Due to the division their in and the current state of development of some of their young players, more specifically their dmen, the Sens are probably a year away from being a playoff team and probably two to three from being a true contender.

To me you ride out contracts like Zaitsev. Be patient and he'll be gone soon. The goalie situation will be different by then and if Forsberg doesn't emerge as a true #1, you have some time to figure out the options. The defense is not ready yet, but they will be.

OTT made some big moves this off-season, but personally, I'd avoid any other big moves for now. Let the young guys take a few more steps, let teams like Boston and Tampa fizzle out and enjoy a long run at the top.
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Sep. 23, 2022 at 11:01 a.m.
#3
KFTW
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Formenton will be moved and replaced with Greig. Sens are a playoff team this year and will be adding a Dman sometime between September and February for the playoff run
Sep. 23, 2022 at 11:38 a.m.
#4
alwaysnextyear
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Quoting: csick
Formenton will be moved and replaced with Greig. Sens are a playoff team this year and will be adding a Dman sometime between September and February for the playoff run


If the Sens keep using Zub as a top pair, defensive Dman (#2) and he and the team have success this year, I think his camp look to a contract like Pelech's as a comparable. A $4m AAV won't cut it.
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Sep. 23, 2022 at 11:40 a.m.
#5
alwaysnextyear
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Quoting: alwaysnextyear
If the Sens keep using Zub as a top pair, defensive Dman (#2) and he and the team have success this year, I think his camp look to a contract like Pelech's as a comparable. A $4m AAV won't cut it.


Cernak would be another good comparable for his agent.
Sep. 23, 2022 at 11:49 a.m.
#6
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Quoting: palhal
You are correct in your analysis. So many Ottawa CF posts do not appreciate the bonuses to paid and how it affects the cap, or the upcoming expensive RFA signings in 23/24.
And you have laid the cap roster for the Sens in 22/23. I still say the Giroux and his 3 year contract might have messed up the Sens in the final two years of his contract....despite being a good player, and the Sens ability to retain younger players.


The 6.5 mil in Cap space would have been the room for a Chychrun trade and some breathing room for other positional options but I'm a huge fan of the signing. I think that's the veteran guy this team 100% needed to bring on to this group. He will be huge for Stutzle, and Tkachuk. Maybe a year too long but he's here. He'll be able to teach how to score, how to lead, how to win face offs and everything else. He was one of the NHL's biggest talents for a long run. I think it off sets the cap he's using.
Sep. 23, 2022 at 11:51 a.m.
#7
Leafs Sufferer
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Wait, you post on this site?
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Sep. 23, 2022 at 12:01 p.m.
#8
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Quoting: csick
Formenton will be moved and replaced with Greig. Sens are a playoff team this year and will be adding a Dman sometime between September and February for the playoff run


Eventually that may be the plan but I think the Sens are a better team this year and at least next with Forms in the 3LW spot. I'm looking at next year. There is space this year for a Dman but not one that has term.

I think Form's floor is a 1st line PK and 35pt guy playing 3rd line mins/teammates. That's a very valuable player @ 3mil. If that's what the contract ends up being. Him and Joseph running the 1st PK is going to push a lot of shorties.
Sep. 23, 2022 at 12:02 p.m.
#9
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Quoting: Ritzy
Wait, you post on this site?


You told me to.
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Sep. 23, 2022 at 12:08 p.m.
#10
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Quoting: alwaysnextyear
Cernak would be another good comparable for his agent.


I think there is a decent gap between those two and Zub. I'm not sure he can command that term/$. He's getting 1st pair mins because he's the best of the Sens competition for that role. He's not playing 1st line mins for NYI or TB. Both those players also had many more years of NHL time.
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Sep. 23, 2022 at 12:16 p.m.
#11
alwaysnextyear
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Quoting: GSGHARRIS
I think there is a decent gap between those two and Zub. I'm not sure he can command that term/$. He's getting 1st pair mins because he's the best of the Sens competition for that role. He's not playing 1st line mins for NYI or TB. Both those players also had many more years of NHL time.


You're probably right that he wouldn't be first pair on those teams, but his agent will still point to the role he has/minutes played when it comes to his next contract. Considering how effective he is on the defensive side I think he definitely gets more than $4m.
Sep. 23, 2022 at 12:21 p.m.
#12
Kster
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When did the SENs become a team that can reliably spend to the cap? Maybe (& big maybe) once the new arena is built but that is a long way off. Reality going to hit soon - they can’t sustain salary structure at the cap ceiling; something will give.
Sep. 23, 2022 at 12:24 p.m.
#13
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Sep. 23, 2022 at 12:48 p.m.
#14
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Quoting: palhal
You are correct in your analysis. So many Ottawa CF posts do not appreciate the bonuses to paid and how it affects the cap, or the upcoming expensive RFA signings in 23/24.
And you have laid the cap roster for the Sens in 22/23. I still say the Giroux and his 3 year contract might have messed up the Sens in the final two years of his contract....despite being a good player, and the Sens ability to retain younger players.


What Giroux brings as a team leader is something Ottawa would be severely lacking in right now without him. I think the addition of Giroux was really important for this teams growth.
Sep. 23, 2022 at 1:37 p.m.
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Quoting: Mr_Gardoki
I've had a few... interesting conversations with Sens fans and I think so many are short-sighted.


On Cap Friendly? Maybe some that just passed through but not among the regulars...

Is it really about if they'll make the playoffs or not? Some tried to convince you that they will make the playoffs? Are they short sighted because they have faith that their team are about to turn the corner?

Nobody knows what will happen. They have made some huge additions, but also some additions by subtraction and could see a significant progress from some of the young players like it happened last year from basically everyone

There's nothing short sighted about believing in your team, that's what sports is all about
Sep. 23, 2022 at 1:44 p.m.
#16
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Quoting: Xspyrit
On Cap Friendly? Maybe some that just passed through but not among the regulars...

Is it really about if they'll make the playoffs or not? Some tried to convince you that they will make the playoffs? Are they short sighted because they have faith that their team are about to turn the corner?

Nobody knows what will happen. They have made some huge additions, but also some additions by subtraction and could see a significant progress from some of the young players like it happened last year from basically everyone

There's nothing short sighted about believing in your team, that's what sports is all about


No, short-sighted in the decisions they propose instead of letting the process play out a little more. Letting your younger guys ease in before making drastic changes.
Sep. 23, 2022 at 1:47 p.m.
#17
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Quoting: kster34
When did the SENs become a team that can reliably spend to the cap? Maybe (& big maybe) once the new arena is built but that is a long way off. Reality going to hit soon - they can’t sustain salary structure at the cap ceiling; something will give.


Melnyk died, the landscape changed. But even then, it was in the plans. Melnyk said so a few years ago. They were supposed to start spending to the cap last year actually.

If the team becomes a playoffs team in the near future, they will be more than fine financially and we don't know how much Melnyk daughters are ready to invest in the team even if the bottom line is not profitable. They are billionaires after all.

Yes they will need an arena downtown but short term they will be fine. Maybe the team will be sold too. Lot of things could happen but Melnyk in the past wanted to rebuild and diminish the expenses to focus on paying the loans. Not saying we approve what he did or not, but that's what happened
Sep. 23, 2022 at 2:00 p.m.
#18
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Quoting: Mr_Gardoki
No, short-sighted in the decisions they propose instead of letting the process play out a little more. Letting your younger guys ease in before making drastic changes.


Ok I would need to see those threads so I can't comment further but one example about this is Zaitsev

I would keep him this year as an insurance policy as the bonus is already paid and the team can easily afford his 2.5 salary

Worst case scenario, he fills in if there's an injury on RD or he goes down to help the AHL team.

He will cost less in assets to dump next off-season

And no need to pay the moon for Chychrun, if he's too costly to acquire, statu quo

That I can agree, let's just see how things unfold.
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Sep. 23, 2022 at 4:30 p.m.
#19
Kster
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Quoting: Xspyrit
Melnyk died, the landscape changed. But even then, it was in the plans. Melnyk said so a few years ago. They were supposed to start spending to the cap last year actually.

If the team becomes a playoffs team in the near future, they will be more than fine financially and we don't know how much Melnyk daughters are ready to invest in the team even if the bottom line is not profitable. They are billionaires after all.

Yes they will need an arena downtown but short term they will be fine. Maybe the team will be sold too. Lot of things could happen but Melnyk in the past wanted to rebuild and diminish the expenses to focus on paying the loans. Not saying we approve what he did or not, but that's what happened


Understood Melnyk died, but reality didn’t change - SENs are bottom 5 in revenue and $CD is dropping . Even with playoffs (which are a long shot) no way you can cover $80+M in salary + operating expenses, etc.
reality will hit soon - no owner is willing to continuously fork out double digits in millions year after year . And Melnyk wasn’t that rich
Sep. 23, 2022 at 5:54 p.m.
#20
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Quoting: kster34
Understood Melnyk died, but reality didn’t change - SENs are bottom 5 in revenue and $CD is dropping . Even with playoffs (which are a long shot) no way you can cover $80+M in salary + operating expenses, etc.
reality will hit soon - no owner is willing to continuously fork out double digits in millions year after year . And Melnyk wasn’t that rich


Hence my last paragraph lol
 
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