Aside from the fact that Detroit is still in the race and they like some of those players like Walman, there's just way to many players in a trade that doesn't even include a star.

Getting Peeke make a lot of sense for the Leafs but not at the cost of Sandin. For goaltending Korpisalo would be a better add.

5 more games rather we lose or not, Isn't going to dictate if we make the playoffs or not.

we're not moving those players for a bunch of worthless UFAs and a player in Robertson who can't stay healthy. We sure as hell aren't retaining on Vrana either. You keep your crap and we keep our players for the playoff push.

There is no incentive for Detroit to make that deal. The package sucks and they're in a prime spot to make the playoffs. There's no need for them to move anyone at this point.

I don't think it needs to include a star and it wouldn't shock me if DET signs one of these 3 in the offseason if a trade didn't occur. Yes, Walman could definitely re-sign with DET so that is totally fair.

haha Great response first of all. Robertson can't stay healthy, Vrana can't stay off the sauce (or whatever the rumours are). Both have talent and may need a new home. I think it's all a matter of preference for this trade so I can respect that.

Toronto isn't going to want to make someone subtractions from their roster either for potentially no improvement, maybe they get worse or get better marginally. There's no star in the trade so makes no sense. 7-piece trades are pretty rare, if it's not for a star, it's probably including a bunch of AHL guys and usually in the off-season.

Leafs wanted Barbashev too, but they didn't want to move guys off the roster at the time. I could see Kerfoot and Holl getting moved but not in a single trade.

Add a pick/or another prospect to make it more of an incentive from the Leads but as stated from the get go, DET needs to take a turn and not be in a position before the deadline for this to realistically happen.

Sundqvist has the familiarity with O'Reilly that shouldn't be overlooked and plays a way more physical game then Engvall. I think Vrana would be a sneaky depth goal scoring add as Kerfoot is more of a playmaker. The trade could be paired down no doubt and tweaked.

It's not just going to be "a pick" though. It's probably a 1st rounder. You're trading 3 cap dumps away to get 3 NHL regulars and a back up G. That's not a small add to a trade.

The math is pretty close for dollar in/dollar out. Nedeljkovic is a 3rd stringer now it seems and Kerfoot/Engvall/Holl have more points then Sundqvist/Vrana/Walman. From my stance, its about tweaking the Leafs roster and adding a 1st as the pick would be crazy. Maybe a 3rd or a B to B+ prospect at best in my eyes.

The biggest cap dump is Ned in that trade, he won't have much value, he who would cost a late pick. He's putting up Mrazek numbers. Kerfoot is underperforming his contract but other than that the rest of the guys on both sides have some value, so there won't be a 1st going back to Detroit.

I wouldn't trade Walman for Robertson, let alone all pieces of trash being included with Robertson. Heck, I don't think I'd trade a single one of the Detroit players for any combination of the offered players. Well, Ned for Robertson is fine, probably inconsequential for both teams though.

If you want to dump all that cap for better players, a 1st plus Knies or Niemala is where it needs to go.

Yzerman wouldn't accept that trade even if it was only Walman himself lol.
Walman-Seider pairing is 8th for xG%, 4th amongst first pairing. #1 xGA pairing.
Splitting that up would be stupid - even if the trade is "fair", which this isn't btw.

Lol.
A top pairing defenseman, a capable goal scorer, a depth forward, and a ****ty goalie for a mid-prospect who's constantly injured, two depth forwards, and one of the worst defensemen in the league.

Get real man.

"Underperforming his contract", so it'd be a capdump?
Red Wings don't need to dump Nedelkovjic, so why would they pay to?
All the pieces coming back Detroit's way are actively worse. Why would they want to try and sign worse players than the ones they traded?

I think you and I are missing the point. Dubas is an expert at fleecing other GMs and winning trades. Going up against an amateur like Yzerman who has absolutely zero track record of making a good trade. Yzerman will totally poo his pants and give in to the Legendary Dubas.

Basically, we misread the situation and forgot how the Leafs can do whatever they want because...reasons...and stuff...and things.

You're so right.
I completely forgot this.

It's basically 1 cap dump for 1 though, except that Kerfoot is more useful than Ned who isn't a 3m goalie. The Leafs don't need to dump Kerfoot either.

If there is any difference between Sunqvist and Engvall it's marginal.

Walman is more valuable to Detroit over Holl just as much as Holl is more valuable than Walman to the Leafs. I doubt Walman would do much better than Holl in his place, but he seems to work well with Seider so it makes no sense for Detroit to move him, and there's no spot for Holl on the right side.

So that basically just leaves Vrana for Robertson. Both guys have diminished value but I'm sure each GM would rather keep their guy, but if there was anyone who would take the exchange between the two it would be Yzerman not Dubas.

So, I'm not saying that Detroit needs to add, I'm saying this is a poor trade for both sides, but it's not like the Detroit guys are super valuable. If Toronto were sellers they would get value out of their guys too. Detroit might sell but they are also within reach of a playoff spot so they could buy too. So, what I was saying is that Toronto isn't adding a 1st to their side.

The point is that Detroit fans (and fans of rebuilding teams/former rebuilders) tend to overvalue their players just as much as Leaf fans bring in massive upgrades with Holl, Engvall, and Kerfoot (this trade here is not one of those).

The trade is pretty much as wash and it's bad for both sides.

I mean calling this a **** trade for both sides is just overrating Kerfoot, Engvall, and especially Holl.
Kerfoot - Pending UFA, would rather overpay for Walman than resign Kerfoot
Engvall - Sunny is used extensively on PP2/PK2. Provides far more use.
Holl - Blows. Saying that Walman wouldn't do better than Holl just shows you only care about points (which Walman would definitely still do better than, sadly statistics aren't biased in this case)
Robertson - Lower ceiling than Vrana, provides less use when injured than Vrana in AHL.
But even with all of the stalemates of the other three, since they are kinda close, Walman is so much better than what Holl can dream to be.
https://imgur.com/a/4pEzax3

You're only looking at the trade from Detroit's side.

The Leafs management like Kerfoot, he might have lost some favor but he's still serving a role. Doesn't matter if fans want to dump him to make moves. If the Leafs do dump him it's going to be to add someone of significance, not anyone in this trade.

Engvall can PK too, like I said they are basically the same player.

Holl might suck be he's playing a role that doesn't suite him, it's not like Walman is going to come to the Leafs and do better in Holl's role. Just because he works well in Detroit's system and with players. You need to put stats in context at the end of the day, and there is bias in statistics as well. If you have their player cards though please do share.

Idk where you get that Robertson has a lower ceiling than Vrana, but what I do know is that Robertson is on an ELC and Vrana has an NHL contract, his own fair share of injuries and he missed most of the year do to his mental health. Acquiring him is a much bigger wild card than Robertson.

The only place where you might have a point is Walman (pending ufa as well), but that remains to be seen, but again where are the Leafs going to play him?

It really is a bad trade for both sides and there's no two ways about it.

Wings are also doing a favor here for the Leafs- retaining money. We could use those retention spots much better.

I agree Kerfoot is more useful than Ned, but what value does Kerfoot bring to Detroit? Nothing. Same with Engvall and Holl, Where in the lineup does they fit? Nowhere. A Trade has to make sense for both sides.

Also: If we are not in a playoffs position, why would we trade UFA’s?

I've been saying from the start that this trade makes no sense for either side and therefore there's no reason for the Leafs to be adding a 1st here like someone suggested.

The Wings aren't doing any favors by retaining, Ned isn't worth 3m and there are cheaper options on the market in terms of cap. Vrana's value is going to be low, so without retaining, Yzerman is going to have to keep him (which is what he will do I think) or give up an asset to dump him to Chicago (which he won't do for no good reason). He could deal him in a trade to Sj if he decides to make a move for Meier.

Leafs add nylander, knies, minten to wings trade