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Leafs 2022 2023 Season Discussion Thread (Part 6: Quest for the Cup)

May 9, 2023 at 4:10 p.m.
#1101
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Quoting: Random2152
I don't believe that for 1 single second


To me its easy for people to go coach and gm is the problem

While there is an argument here and there they are not the reason Leafs are down 3-0

To me rn in this series the problem is the big 4 are not producing

If we go by % Nylander is 45% shown up everyone else BIG FAT 0. Little flashes but no sustaining it.

Our D and Goaltending also havent been great but I got a feeling there's an injury

To me (might be to late) if big 4 get going u still could have a series. As if the scores (besides game 1) without them scoring. Imagine they start scoring. A reverse sweep could actually be possible

Honestly waiting for Keefe and Dubas to leave go join CGY win a cup with them and we just end up with another Kadri situation. Oh so he wasnt the problem lul
May 9, 2023 at 4:30 p.m.
#1102
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Quoting: Random2152
I don't believe that for 1 single second


A lot of Washington fans thought like you. Imagine if they would have listened to those people and blew up the core before they won.
May 9, 2023 at 5:20 p.m.
#1103
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Quoting: RipNasty
A lot of Washington fans thought like you. Imagine if they would have listened to those people and blew up the core before they won.


The Washington core got lucky. That is a lesson in nhl randomness- not a blueprint for sucess
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May 9, 2023 at 5:25 p.m.
#1104
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Quoting: aadoyle
To me its easy for people to go coach and gm is the problem

While there is an argument here and there they are not the reason Leafs are down 3-0

To me rn in this series the problem is the big 4 are not producing

If we go by % Nylander is 45% shown up everyone else BIG FAT 0. Little flashes but no sustaining it.

Our D and Goaltending also havent been great but I got a feeling there's an injury

To me (might be to late) if big 4 get going u still could have a series. As if the scores (besides game 1) without them scoring. Imagine they start scoring. A reverse sweep could actually be possible

Honestly waiting for Keefe and Dubas to leave go join CGY win a cup with them and we just end up with another Kadri situation. Oh so he wasnt the problem lul


You have to be a flames fan.
May 9, 2023 at 5:25 p.m.
#1105
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Quoting: Random2152
The Washington core got lucky. That is a lesson in nhl randomness- not a blueprint for sucess


Colorado got lucky as well then?
May 9, 2023 at 5:46 p.m.
#1106
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Quoting: RipNasty
You have to be a flames fan.


Nope it's just how leaf luck works we chase away guys we view as problems they go win somewhere else up next Dubas and Keefe. Who will join Kadri in the FU segments in NHL history
May 9, 2023 at 5:46 p.m.
#1107
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Quoting: RipNasty
Colorado got lucky as well then?


E-C0ylRXoAAAjC1.jpg
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May 9, 2023 at 5:46 p.m.
#1108
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Quoting: RipNasty
Something new or are you just realizing we are in a deep hole?


I was on break didn't gave have time to give a longer response. I'm well aware we're in a deep hole and thought this team would have shown up for game 2 but haven't yet. This team needs to set the tone and dictate the pace of play, which they've failed to do to this point and I blame the coaching. Keefe didn't out coach cooper in the Tampa sieries, they were worn out. Keefe has been outcoached this entire sieries and his panic shows with the constant line juggling. By this time of year a teams lines should be pretty much set and unless injuries pile up a coach should not need to adjust as much as keefe has. I can understand trying to get your guys going but that should not be the case this time of year for the players.

This group can't win because they like losing more than yhey hate winning and you just can't win a cup without that drive. This team has the talent to win a cup but lack the will needed IMO.
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May 9, 2023 at 5:48 p.m.
#1109
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Quoting: MatthewsFan
It’s not looking pretty but a little puck luck couldn’t hurt eh?
FvsYa3oWwAAm85C?format=jpg&name=medium


Should have hit multi quote but here's my opinion...

I was on break didn't gave have time to give a longer response. I'm well aware we're in a deep hole and thought this team would have shown up for game 2 but haven't yet. This team needs to set the tone and dictate the pace of play, which they've failed to do to this point and I blame the coaching. Keefe didn't out coach cooper in the Tampa sieries, they were worn out. Keefe has been outcoached this entire sieries and his panic shows with the constant line juggling. By this time of year a teams lines should be pretty much set and unless injuries pile up a coach should not need to adjust as much as keefe has. I can understand trying to get your guys going but that should not be the case this time of year for the players.

This group can't win because they like losing more than yhey hate winning and you just can't win a cup without that drive. This team has the talent to win a cup but lack the will needed IMO.
EDITQUOTE
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May 9, 2023 at 5:51 p.m.
#1110
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Quoting: aadoyle
Nope it's just how leaf luck works we chase away guys we view as problems they go win somewhere else up next Dubas and Keefe. Who will join Kadri in the FU segments in NHL history


Keefe isn't an NHL cup winning coach. I know you are in the blame the stars camp, and for some reason think Keefe has done nothing wrong which makes this a tough conversation. However, what has Keefe done to warrant such loyalty? He inherited a playoff team and has done nothing with that. He is a regular season coach and just doesn't have it in him to make the adjustments needed come playoff time. Dubas is a grade A GM. Keefe is a B level coach. Fire him, keep the core and find them a coach who's going to help them figure out what it takes to win.
May 9, 2023 at 5:53 p.m.
#1111
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Quoting: Random2152
E-C0ylRXoAAAjC1.jpg


Colorado lost in the 2nd round for several years in a row as well. Then won. Many talked about their style of play and stars not having what it took to win. They play very close to TO and had the same issues. Then they won. Blowing it up is stupid
May 9, 2023 at 5:54 p.m.
#1112
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Quoting: RipNasty
Colorado lost in the 2nd round for several years in a row as well. Then won. Many talked about their style of play and stars not having what it took to win. They play very close to TO and had the same issues. Then they won. Blowing it up is stupid


Totally and completely different scenarios between COL and WSH, and even TOR.
Enough of your crap
May 9, 2023 at 5:54 p.m.
#1113
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Quoting: RipNasty
A lot of Washington fans thought like you. Imagine if they would have listened to those people and blew up the core before they won.


Washington should have absolutely won more than 1 cup with that core including arguably the best goal scorer of all time. How anyone can view Washington's success during the Ovi era as anything other than a failure is beyond me and they absolutely should have adjusted earlier.

We know the results with them keeping their core intact but how can you argue they couldn't have won more if they adjusted more rather than keeping the course?
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May 9, 2023 at 5:57 p.m.
#1114
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Quoting: Sign_em_up000000
I was on break didn't gave have time to give a longer response. I'm well aware we're in a deep hole and thought this team would have shown up for game 2 but haven't yet. This team needs to set the tone and dictate the pace of play, which they've failed to do to this point and I blame the coaching. Keefe didn't out coach cooper in the Tampa sieries, they were worn out. Keefe has been outcoached this entire sieries and his panic shows with the constant line juggling. By this time of year a teams lines should be pretty much set and unless injuries pile up a coach should not need to adjust as much as keefe has. I can understand trying to get your guys going but that should not be the case this time of year for the players.

This group can't win because they like losing more than yhey hate winning and you just can't win a cup without that drive. This team has the talent to win a cup but lack the will needed IMO.


I am not sure that's the right word to use. I think they do what their coach wants and their coach is too stubborn to change anything. I said it after game 1 when Keefe acted like it was all good, we played well enough to win bla bla bla bla. That scared me because it showed me he learned nothing from the loss and then game 2 reinforced it when he again did nothing because they deserved to win. He's just not a playoff coach. He may become one someday but we can't wait on him to learn.

Hire whoever wins the memorial cup.
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May 9, 2023 at 5:57 p.m.
#1115
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Quoting: Random2152
Im pretty sure everyone here has some gripe with Keefe. The only differences is the order in which we want changes to happen, and the severity of the issues we charge him with


To me I dont think its him but the players specifically the core 4

They have had 2 different coaches who did 2 different styles and were seeing almost the exact same issues. At least unlike Babcock who made 0 changes Keefe at least moves things around and helped TOR win a round for the first time in 19 years lul.

But yea is he the best coach we could have rn no but when we look at the market not many standouts

Boudreau (playoff choking king)
Brunette (Couldnt beat Cooper so 1 for Keefe lul and if he was so good why didnt DET, CBJ, ANA hire him)
Gallant (You get 1.5 good years before a firing)
Sutter (Babcock 2.0)
Laviolette (Losing touch with todays game)
A bunch of AHL or Assistants with little to no HC experience for NHL so do we want more gambles before AM leaves no.

To me the Leafs need a coach who has seen it all and has helped his old squad build a winning culture the guy who probs would have worked is now GM of the Preds. So basically were just gonna make a lateral move with any new guy unless Sullivan or Cooper magically become available.
May 9, 2023 at 5:58 p.m.
#1116
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Quoting: Sign_em_up000000
Should have hit multi quote but here's my opinion...

I was on break didn't gave have time to give a longer response. I'm well aware we're in a deep hole and thought this team would have shown up for game 2 but haven't yet. This team needs to set the tone and dictate the pace of play, which they've failed to do to this point and I blame the coaching. Keefe didn't out coach cooper in the Tampa sieries, they were worn out. Keefe has been outcoached this entire sieries and his panic shows with the constant line juggling. By this time of year a teams lines should be pretty much set and unless injuries pile up a coach should not need to adjust as much as keefe has. I can understand trying to get your guys going but that should not be the case this time of year for the players.

This group can't win because they like losing more than yhey hate winning and you just can't win a cup without that drive. This team has the talent to win a cup but lack the will needed IMO.
EDITQUOTE


good to have you back
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May 9, 2023 at 5:58 p.m.
#1117
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Quoting: Random2152
Totally and completely different scenarios between COL and WSH, and even TOR.
Enough of your crap


Different scenarios? Their cores were questioned and the media and fans wanted to see them make a major change. Neither team did and they won. Jordan was billed as too soft for the playoffs in the NBA, but they stuck with it.

Keefe helped Matthews and the rest flourish in the regular season but doesn't know how to get stuff done in the playoffs. A better coach could give them the edge they need to win. Keefe doesn't have it in him.
May 9, 2023 at 6:02 p.m.
#1118
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Quoting: MatthewsFan
It’s not looking pretty but a little puck luck couldn’t hurt eh?
FvsYa3oWwAAm85C?format=jpg&name=medium


I hear ya believe I do but I don't think Keefe can out duel PM.
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May 9, 2023 at 6:05 p.m.
#1119
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Quoting: Sign_em_up000000
I hear ya believe I do but I don't think Keefe can out duel PM.


He doesnt really have to so much as people think. As even if he outcoaches if big boyz arent doing anything what goods that. Big boyz got to wake the **** up lul

Like Keefe's put them in every matchup and situation and all have been zzzzzzzz

Nylanders the only guy doing at least something but even thats not enough

They bat one goal and start producing there could still be a series. As if its been this close score wise with no big 4 scoring imagine they get going.

But hes the scapegoat for the fans lul
May 9, 2023 at 6:05 p.m.
#1120
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Quoting: Sign_em_up000000
I was on break didn't gave have time to give a longer response. I'm well aware we're in a deep hole and thought this team would have shown up for game 2 but haven't yet. This team needs to set the tone and dictate the pace of play, which they've failed to do to this point and I blame the coaching. Keefe didn't out coach cooper in the Tampa sieries, they were worn out. Keefe has been outcoached this entire sieries and his panic shows with the constant line juggling. By this time of year a teams lines should be pretty much set and unless injuries pile up a coach should not need to adjust as much as keefe has. I can understand trying to get your guys going but that should not be the case this time of year for the players.

This group can't win because they like losing more than yhey hate winning and you just can't win a cup without that drive. This team has the talent to win a cup but lack the will needed IMO.


Quoting: Sign_em_up000000
Should have hit multi quote but here's my opinion...

I was on break didn't gave have time to give a longer response. I'm well aware we're in a deep hole and thought this team would have shown up for game 2 but haven't yet. This team needs to set the tone and dictate the pace of play, which they've failed to do to this point and I blame the coaching. Keefe didn't out coach cooper in the Tampa sieries, they were worn out. Keefe has been outcoached this entire sieries and his panic shows with the constant line juggling. By this time of year a teams lines should be pretty much set and unless injuries pile up a coach should not need to adjust as much as keefe has. I can understand trying to get your guys going but that should not be the case this time of year for the players.

This group can't win because they like losing more than yhey hate winning and you just can't win a cup without that drive. This team has the talent to win a cup but lack the will needed IMO.
EDITQUOTE


My bad I messed up the last part, meant to say... they like winning more than they hate loosing.
May 9, 2023 at 6:06 p.m.
#1121
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Quoting: MatthewsFan
good to have you back


Thanks! Sorry been busy, I try to come on here as much as I can just don't have the time like I used to.
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May 9, 2023 at 6:11 p.m.
#1122
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Quoting: aadoyle
He doesnt really have to so much as people thing. Big boyz got to wake the **** up lul

Like Keefe's put them in every matchup and situation and all have been zzzzzzzz

Nylanders the only guy doing at least something but even thats not enough

They bat one goal and start producing there could still be a series. As if its been this close score wise with no big 4 scoring imagine they get going.

But hes the scapegoat for the fans lul


Yes this team needs to wake up and need to share the blame 💯 but Keefe is not nore has he been the a good enough coach to take a team to the cup, especially one as talented as this one is.

There's no sieries this team has blown it. Or another way to put it is what makes you think this team could win the sieries at this point?

Do you think Keefe shouldn't share the blame for how this year has transpired? Do you view this as a success? This is now the 2nd opportunity this team has had an easier path to the cup and have not taken it.
May 9, 2023 at 6:15 p.m.
#1123
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When TOR gets compared to WSH the thing I don't get is:

WSH ran a core featuring Ovechkin(Matthews), Backstrom(Marner), Carlson(Rielly), Orlov(Brodie), and Holtby(Samsonov) for six years before finally winning in year seven. The secondary core at the beginning of their window featured players such as Semin, Johansson, Laich, Wideman, and Brouwer. When they eventually won, the secondary group was completely replaced by Kuznetsov(draft), Wilson(draft), Burakovsky (draft), Vrana(draft), Stephenson(draft), Oshie(trade), Eller(trade), and Niskanen(FA).

What is TOR secondary core right now: O'Reilly(trade), Acciari(trade), Kerfoot, Bunting, Kampf, Jarnkrok(FA), Knies(draft),Lafferty, ZAR, and McCabe(trade) Like who out of that group would be Burakovsky, Vrana, Wilson, Kuznetsov? That is some pretty serious skill.

The lack of depth on this team is staggering. Yes, we will only go as far as Matthews, Marner, Tavares, Nylander, takes them, but there as some serious weak links on this roster construction.
May 9, 2023 at 6:18 p.m.
#1124
Rip
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Quoting: aadoyle
To me I dont think its him but the players specifically the core 4

They have had 2 different coaches who did 2 different styles and were seeing almost the exact same issues. At least unlike Babcock who made 0 changes Keefe at least moves things around and helped TOR win a round for the first time in 19 years lul.

But yea is he the best coach we could have rn no but when we look at the market not many standouts

Boudreau (playoff choking king)
Brunette (Couldnt beat Cooper so 1 for Keefe lul and if he was so good why didnt DET, CBJ, ANA hire him)
Gallant (You get 1.5 good years before a firing)
Sutter (Babcock 2.0)
Laviolette (Losing touch with todays game)
A bunch of AHL or Assistants with little to no HC experience for NHL so do we want more gambles before AM leaves no.

To me the Leafs need a coach who has seen it all and has helped his old squad build a winning culture the guy who probs would have worked is now GM of the Preds. So basically were just gonna make a lateral move with any new guy unless Sullivan or Cooper magically become available.


Whoever wins the memorial cup would be my choice
May 9, 2023 at 6:18 p.m.
#1125
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Quoting: RipNasty
I am not sure that's the right word to use. I think they do what their coach wants and their coach is too stubborn to change anything. I said it after game 1 when Keefe acted like it was all good, we played well enough to win bla bla bla bla. That scared me because it showed me he learned nothing from the loss and then game 2 reinforced it when he again did nothing because they deserved to win. He's just not a playoff coach. He may become one someday but we can't wait on him to learn.

Hire whoever wins the memorial cup.


What word? I think it's the opposite I think they don't respect Keefe enough to care what he says. This team needs a coach who commands respect. IMO Trotz would have been the best option but that's a no go at this point. We need to see who becomes available in the offseason first but I don't think bringing in another rookie coach is the way to go.
 
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