Not adding Ehlers to that Pens trade, I get there's a lot of pieces there but still no.

Without Ehlers that trade is never happening tho. WPG is unlikely to receive half of that package for a rental goalie.

That Pittsburgh trade is fair and realistic. Only one 1st though, no conditional 1st. Might need to drop one of the 2nds.

I know that.

It's fair and realistic. But no conditional 1st...and a 2nd... :P

Kidding aside, I don't think the Pens would bite.

Ehlers for Granlund and a 2025 2nd
Hellebuyck for a 3rd (maybe a B- prospect too)

Neither guy is worth a 1st, let alone a middle 1st.

So you don't believe the players or management that the Jets have no interest in a rebuild? That's what the sum of these proposals amount to.....

I don't think the Penguins and Flames deals work without the Jets retaining in both trades.
Also, instead of retaining on Dillon that slot could be better used on Wheeler if there'd be any interest in him from other teams.

Pens trade does with Granlund included, I tested that. They have ample cap space left after the fact, as they don't have huge contracts to re-sign.

CGY is more of a placeholder, the idea is simply to get a 2nd, much like they paid for Nino. Any team works, just picked CGY since they need a winger.

I don't see a Wheeler trade happening. That full NMC poses too many problems, and his reputation is pretty meh.

Adding picks, prospects and players that can be converted to other picks later down the line does constitute a rebuild in my opinion...

What the heck are you talking about

.....which is exactly my point. All of the messages coming from the Jets at the end of the season were dismissive of any rebuild happening yet you're proposing sell-offs for picks and prospects. That's why I asked if you don't believe what the Jets said as being true or if you just disagree with that approach, which is fine. It won't change the reality though.

Yeah whatever happens in reality doesn't really impact this post. This post is about them committing to a rebuild.

Which part?

Ehlers is a much better version of Granlund but has missed time with injuries the last 3 of 4 (non shortened) years, hence the 2nd added.

Hellebuyck had a great year but he had an ok year last year and is a rental. The other issue is goalie needy teams, who aim to compete, and have cap room are few. This drives his price down. I think a high 3rd is about right. Maybe someone will do a mid 2nd. Anything more is too much without an extension, which also might be risky depending on how much he wants and length.

Hellebuyck and Ehlers line up with the Pens closing window. Granlund is a cap dump.

Hellebuyck only if he takes an extension. The Pen's believe their window is 2-3 years. A rental doesn't help that.

Ehlers is a awkward situation. I think he's still good but he hasn't had a full season in 5 years.

Granlund is a fine player. Not worth his salary but he has value. Without retention he is worth a 5th or 6th. With retention (of around 2MM) he is worth a 3rd or low 2nd.

The Avs should have no interest in a Schiefele rental.

Ehlers is level wise around the same class as Guentzel, DeBrincat and Nylander, and the only issue is that he's a bit more injury prone. He's worth much, much more than a statistical nightmare like Granlund, and a 2nd round pick.

Hellebuyck is in Vezina contention. Calling him worth a third is absolutely ludicrous. Ville Husso, as a pending UFA, got a 3rd for his signing rights, with 0 years left.

They need a 2C. The UFA market is dreadful in terms of centers. Scheifele would in this scenario likely be the best option for them.

By created xgoals 5v5 / All Situations:
Ehlers: 9.3 / 13
Nylander: 22.4 / 33
Guentzel: 18.8 / 38
Cat: 16.1 / 28

Taking into account that Ehlers played less games makes his numbers go up but he is in a lower tier. Also, teams trading for him can't overlook his injury history. It's a chronic problem.

Just because someone paid more for another guy doesn't mean he is worth that. Hextall paid a mid 2nd for Granlund.

Ehlers is not much of a goal scorer, but in points/60 for instance

1.Nylander 3.43
2.Ehlers 3.23
3.Guentzel 2.79
4.DeBrincat 2.54

And that was probably the second worst move of the entire deadline.

Granlund is not a fine player. Why you spreading lies?

Ehlers, Hellebuyck for 2023 1st, a 2nd, Granlund, and Pickering and a condional 2nd (drops to a 3rd if Pens miss playoffs next season) .

The 2023 1st is 16th overall, which in this draft is like a top 10 in any other draft. That is for Ehlers. The 2nd is for Granlund cap dump, Pickering and the conditional 2ndis for Ehlers,

Created xGoals is how many goals you created for the team. It accounts more for the individual than team play or linemates. Points can be random or can be heavily swayed by linemates. Remember Chechoo scored 40+ goals because Jumbo Joe was passing the puck.

Actually it's 14th overall. And I think Ehlers with two years left is at least equivalent to what DeBrincat got, which was 7th+39th+3rd from another year.

Hellebuyck should be for another first plus a goalie prospect given his state as a Top5 goalie in the league.

And by the same token you could argue that Ehlers is the one getting the least help from his teammate when compared to these players mentioned here.