I assume Ottawa has to make this trade. Not sure it's the best move for Minnesota though.

Might be a fair trade but it really doesn't help the Sens if Pinto can be signed for 1.75m for this season (Hartman salary), Pinto has no leverage in negotiations.

If he could get 2.5 mil, why would he settle for 1.75? I get he can’t be offer sheeted but agents and GMs talk all the time. And OTT probably needs Pinto more than Pinto needs OTT.

Only niggle here is the Hartman extension.

I’m not sure MN could pass on it if it was offered. If Pinto can be a 2C, this would create an incredibly strong (and young) center corps. High end wings can be found relatively easily and they could use their assets for an Addison upgrade next year.

What leverage does Pinto have? If the Sens can only afford (offer) 1.75m, what Pinto's options? Not play in the NHL this year? I really don't understand "if he could get 2.5m". Well he can't from a practical view.

Fair enough. This could be a very good trade for both teams then. If Minnesota were willing to retain 100-250k on Hartman as well, it could really help Ottawa become cap compliant, while keeping the guys they want to keep.

He can do precisely that. Not play in the NHL this year. He could make close to a mil in Switzerland or the K.

I think he’ll eventually sign a 1.5 mil deal but there is no such thing as no leverage. There is always another option, and OTT should be terrified by that. I really don’t know why they haven’t sent Joseph and Boucher to Philly to get Pinto done.

Oh yeah. Problem is it sounds like Hartman is gonna extend.

Playing in Europe doesn't help Pinto financially and certainly not next summer when he negotiates an NHL contract. Joseph 2.9m X 3 years almost untradable. it's the term. Don't know why Sens should be "terrified". L

For the record I made several teams with PIT trading for Joseph at the draft for a draft pick and Sens fans said no.

Because they need Pinto to be a real playoff threat. Even with him, I have them on the outside looking in.

But reports were the Flyers asked for Boucher to dump Joseph, which is why I brought it up. And Pinto knows there’s an extra 3 mil to work with when they move Joseph. If I’m Pinto, I’m pulling a Nylander.

MIN doesn't touch this

I’m not sure why there’s push back on this. The Sens are trying to move Joseph to give that money to Pinto and Pinto won’t sign til that happens. Seems pretty simple.

Yikes??? When a player isn't worth his contract (which I assume Joseph) just giving away is about the only option would have, without taking cap back.
Gee, we have many knowledgable Sens fans on this site, I'm surprised they said no.
The only trouble with pulling a Nylander....is that Sens will just might be offering him less what he was offered now.
I thought Dubas gave in to Nylander. Leafs were in first place on a 117 point pace. Nylander play that season was bad season. IMO he hurt the Leafs that season.
Players have the right not to sign a contract they don't like. But geez, I don't think these RFAs who aren't playing as of yet aren't doing themselves any favours this season or next by not signing and playing

I agree with this. As a young player in the NHL, you could get as bit better payday as a young guy by holding out. But how good does a hold out do you? You look at players that star playing mid season or even like November or something, they are a step behind and struggle to catch up. If he wants to get that big long term deal, he has to prove he is worth it and having a mediocre season isn't going to help your long term negotiations.

If Hartman can be extended reasonably then I'm interested. But with how much Dorion has gambled all the way (even though we were in a rebuild lol), not sure I'd want to take risks at the moment


Who says he COULD? His agent? He has no leverage, no arbitration rights so there's no "could", it's what is agreed upon by both sides. Very possible that he wants to get more than what is offered, could also be delayed by Ottawa as they are evaluating all their options (what they said before training camp)

And while Ottawa WANTS Pinto, he's not really crucial. Giroux can play Center, Greig is going to be even better IMO and then you have Jarventie who was moved to Center last season and has looked great since. He has an impressive camp


- Missing another NHL season is really not ideal for his career, could cost him down the road.

- Ottawa actually value Joseph and they took Boucher high just 2 years ago... they kinda have to follow trough their silly reach. They should not PAY to move a good player and they know it. They'll go in a different direction (although Dorion is a time ticking bomb)

- People are overeacting way too much (as usual). 2 years ago, the captain Brady Tkachuk missed the whole training camp and the first 3 games of the season (they won 2 of them). Pinto is actually in a bad spot because Greig and Jarventie are actually more talented than him... so they could decide to send him to place he wouldn't be thrilled to go.

He's not "untradable", it's just that teams want a valuable compensation to take cap considering the market and Ottawa know it just doesn't make sense. Joseph is a much better player that it has been portrayed on CF. Elite PK metrics all his career, Better defensively at ES than most NHL forwards and great on the forecheck with his top speed. Even his production is underrated, he has paced for 28 pts per 82 games in the NHL despite spending most of his ice-time on the 4th line of a top contender (10:56 TOI/GP at ES, 64 total minutes on the PP in his whole career). Only 5 of his 100 pts have been on the PP.

Sens are currently evaluating all their options and said as such before camp. It would be a terrible move to pay anything to move Joseph. Makes more sense to move Kubalik (it will be hard to get him PP minutes and he's UFA after the season and Sens will need the cap to replace/upgrade Tarasenko) or even Brannstrom (to make room for Kleven)

All that said, IMO the solution will happen by itself and it will be related to an injury (on the Sens or another team)


It was hard to predict that Dorion would do things backwards though... but knowing him, we should have known lol


He said at the draft, which was held on June 28th...


Again, June 28th... Sens had over 10 M$ in cap space at that moment...

The only reason Sens fans (well at least the vast majority) would want to move Joseph is to create space, which we didn't NEED back then.

I'm a huge fan of Pinto, but if the options were between this and using a 1st to get rid of a different contract, you'd definitely have to explore the option. An affordable temporary replacement and a high-potential prospect is about as good as Ottawa can realitically try to get, with their minimal leverage