WHy is MTL giving you a 2nd? Youre asking for 2 yrs of retention and Savard for about 12 draft spots?

ANd if you dont get that 2nd, you're not getting walker. Even though Timmins has pretty zero value, and a 4th rounder THREE drafts away is meh value, so your offer for Walker is pretty bad too

It's Colorados 2nd. So it's a late 2nd. Call it 30-32 spots difference. Because Savard isn't worth a 1st on his own?

I also don't see how that's a bad offer for Walker either. He will get slightly less than Tanev in my mind. This is slightly less.

But its not Savard on his own, its Savard at 50% for 2 years, thats why its a 1st. I dont think MTL thinks about your offer very long before hanging up.

And again, what is the value of Timmins? ITS ZERO, hes a unhealthy/healthy scratch who doesn;t play good defense, TOR got him for nothing, and he'd be on his 4th team in 5 years, and Why would PHI want him? And as I said, if you dont get that COL 2nd, what do you have to offer?

And with Tanev gone, maybe Walker doesn;t get slightly less, when you still have a lot of contenders looking for a RD? (And the prospect CGY got is probably much better than Timmins, and most people think CGY got a bad return, I dont think PHI is CGY)

I meant Savard at 50% retention wouldn't get a 1st. He would get a 2nd tops at that cap hit in my mind.

Timmins value is neutral. So it's a 2nd and 4th for Walker. Tanev got 1 x 2nd and a prospect worth a 2nd. The 3rd round pick only transfers if Dallas makes the finals. They are great team but that is still an unlikely condition.

So Tanev got 2 x 2nds and a off chance bonus. Walker is a 2nd + 4th. Maybe I am a touch short but I don't think it's crazy. Maybe 2nd + 3rd is fair.

I dont think it gets done for Savard, especially because you're getting him at 50% for two years for an exchange of 20-30 draft spots. And a 2nd and 4th for Walker might get it done, but your 4th is THREE drafts away and youre throwing in a 1.1mil defenseman who doesn;t play defense that PHI doesn;t want.

You are the BUYER, the seller sets the market, especially as you're the more depserate party and Tanev is off the market. I don;t think TOR gets to decide on the Tanev price (which again, most think CGY got slightly fleeced) as the market value.

So I dont think youre getting a 2nd in return for Savard, and because TOR doesnt have one, its a 1st.

And generally the early deals are lighter, making the later deals more expensive (example, McCabe was generally cheap vs ROR very expensive last year, Foligno, etc...)

Most Calgary fans are wrong though. They got 2 x 2nds in value and it sounds like they really like the prospect. 2 x 2nds is easily worth the late 1st they wanted. Any rational fan will see that it was a decent trade for both teams.

But fair enough on Savard.

Yeah, really its the punishment of having traded all the 2nds, because I somewhat agree that Walker for a 2nd and 4th and a midlevel prospect is more than enough, but not having a 2nd creates issues. Even 2 3rds and a 5th should be enough for walker

Definitely - Hence me trying to be creative in the AGM. I think Montreal should take this. I don't see them getting a 1st rounder for Savard in any other situation.

I like the Habs deal. It’s a late second so really you’re moving up 25+ spots and getting a higher tier of a prospect. But I think Montreals management over values Savard and won’t move him unless it’s a drastic overpay

Its also about the right veteran for their plethora of kids on defense. Hes a valuable player to have for the next 2 yrs, so they'll really only part with him to get what they want

He is worth a 1st with retention, just like Lehky, just like, Chiarot, Just like Monahan. Don't know why so many people on here value picks so highly when even a top 5 pick only has about a 50 ish percent chance of making the NHL compared to the guy who is already an NHL player. Here we aren't even talking about a top 5 pick though, it's like 25th ish which has about a 10% chance of making the NHL, that isn't worth more than a guy who strengthens you D and increases your odds of going on a deeper run.

People see these picks as better players than what theyre trading for. I see picks as assets that can used later for weaknesses/stop gaps, but rarely do the picks equal the player.

Its more about taking a shot in the dark 2-4 yrs down the road and whether that team can wait that long to see if their scouts are any good.

If TOR wants it this year then they definitely part with a late round 1st for savard or walker

Montreal responds with all sorts of no, you have to know that already though.

Personally I’d avoid Savard; dude looks washed - or at least really slow . Guy was good in the playoffs for Tampa 3 years ago. Think how different Brodie is now compared to 3 years ago … if someone gives up a 1st for Savard 🤯

I like the Savard trade, and I think it’s a fair trade for both teams. Everyone knows Savard isn’t worth a 1st rd pick, but with salary retention and the inclusion of a 2nd rd pick, a late 1st rd pick is fair value.

I’d even be willing to accept an expiring contract to help make it happen.

Same was said about Monahan, now look at how he is doing in Winnipeg, situations are completely different between being used on the top pairing in Montreal and the 2nd or 3rd pairing in Toronto, BTW Savard would be beside Brodie on the 2nd pairing

I would have said the same about Monaghan, a 1st is way too much but credit to Habs for finding a buyer at that price. But main concern - for me - with Monahan was injuries; Jets GM must have thought it worth the risk. With Savard it’s pace of play, and I would not take that risk if I were Tre

Except in the playoffs, the pace of play slows way down and open ice isn't as readily available. That's why good regular season teams tend to struggle in the playoffs. Savard is a playoff type of player, he will help get through the playoffs instead of someone like Liljegren who will only help get you to the playoffs.

Agree to disagree; I think you’re right - playoffs are partly a war of attrition (because refs stop calling blatant penalties, but that’s a different subject) but still have to defend against rush b/c a lot of scoring chances come from turnovers. Who knows but I’ll be beyond shocked if anyone pays a 1st for Savard, even at 50% retention.

The other thing is that, yes Calgary only got 2 2nds for Tanev butthat isn't the price Hughes has set. If Tre says to Hughes "Savard isn't worth a 1st cause Tanev only got 2 2nds" I can guarantee Hughes replies with well then maybe you should have upped your offer for Tanev then" timing is a huge factor as well, there were 10 days left before the TDL and Tanev was the better of the 2 but much like when Monahan was traded, Savard is now the best available playoff style D man

If anything, the positive in Savard's game is he's consistent. He's still exactly the same player now that he was with Tampa. Warts and all. He is definitely one of the slower players in the league imo but he was always like that, but that's not what he provides. Teams will want Savard for his net front presence, his shot blocking, and his overall playoff / cup experience. One of the small victories for MTL this season is that they are like 15-0-2 with a lead after 2 periods. And Savard plays a big part of that since he's practically always on the ice when MTL is defending a lead.

Now determining what's that is worth is definitely up for debate, but I think in Savard's case, being signed next season ups his value, especially considering Habs can retain 50% for next year as well. With the salary cap going up, Vet stay-at-home defensemen will probably cost at least $4mil aav. So Savard at potentially $1.75mil next year would be a steal.

I feel for Benoit every time I see Leaf trades on here and him moving out...he has been by far the most improved and competitive guy on the team...he needs a little more confidence and of course playoff experience...imho

I left him in the line up here - I did 11 and 7. Specifically because Benoit has been good!