Sens fans have to be mad about Senko going for less

Henrique netted a ‘24 1st. Do you think Vatrano will cost less while outproducing him, with another year remaining on his contract, and a significantly cheaper cap hit?

That sir is one heck of a question

Incorrect. Henrique AND Carrick AND retention on both netted a 1st. This is very different. But if a minor pick needs to be added, I'm sure Drury would have no problem

I don't see the Hawks tying up a retention slot for next season unless it is on one of their own players.

Carrick is a 4th liner. His value was that of the conditional 5th/4th

Henrique with retention = 1st (just how Lindholm and Monahan reeled in similar returns with similar production). Henrique at 50% retention brought him within like $800k of Vatrano at full cost.

So let me rephrase. You think Henrique on an expiring deal at $2.8M is worth more than Vatrano with another year at $3.6M? You’re aware Vatrano is on nearly a 40 goal pace, right?

Who is Sam carrick and who is this retention guy?! I don’t know much about them. Minors/juniors guys??

I forgot they still have the McCabe slot. But who else are they going to use it on, anyway? I guess they could use it on Hall next year, but who would be the potential 3rd besides this? Either way, it could be ARI or whoever else, then.

Carrick is a hard working 4th line C. Limited skill, awesome work ethic. Decent in faceoffs, defense, PK. His value was around that of the co dictionary 5th/4th

2 retention slots is not worth a 5th round pick, I don't care what line the dude plays on. The trade was made and he literally ate up your last retention slot.

Your question is not an apples for apples comparison. I don't understand why you're trying to make it out to be one.

Next year could be Hall, Donato, AA, or some other UFA they sign this offseason to a 1 year deal.

Retention spots have like 4th round pick value at the TDL depending on the amount retained, what are we even talking about right now?

Okay then though, here’s a different perspective. Mantha reeled in a 2nd & 4th while producing 70% of Vatrano. He was retained to bring his contract to $2.8M. That means Vatrano producing like he is at next deadline (140% of Mantha) retained to $1.8M (65% of Mantha) is certainly worth more. It’s not at all a stretch to assume that’s a first. So what incentive does ANA have trading away their top scorer now for the same return they can get in a year after retaining the services of their best offensive player?

lmfao, You don't even know what you're trying to say with this convoluted Mantha example. What on earth are you on about? "Their top scorer"... as if ANA are going anywhere or that matters? And what if Vatrano doesn't produce as heavy next year, which is very likely? Then he tanks down.

Chips are down, smoke is cleared: Vatrano at full cap hit is worth a 1st round pick. If you could retain, then you get the prospect and minor pick. But that's your fault for retaining 400k on Carrick, not mine. So, now that goes to another team that can eat his 50%.

So carrick could get a 5th on his own as a good depth piece. 25% of AH contract was worth a 5th rounder. The retention of carrick could like be price at a 6th but the fact that it takes up your last spot would raise that value. Taylor has no value. And you gave a 7th. So essentially ANA concedes a 7th, a 5th, a retention slot which should be worth a 5th easily. While getting the 1st. Henrique retained wasn’t worth a 1st on his own.

Sorry if that example was hard for you to understand in complete sentences, let me simplify it.
Player A: 20-14-34 @ $2.9M ret = 2nd + 4th
Player B: 29-19-48 @ 1.8M ret = [fill in the blank]

Let’s assume the worst case. Vatrano comes back to earth and performs 30% worse next year (I.e. player A).
Player C 20-14-34 @$1.9M ret = [likely 2nd +3rd?]

10 times out of 10 I’m keeping Vatrano for another year for the worst case scenario of getting production and leadership from him for another season at the risk of a 1st turning into a 2nd + 3rd, with the best case scenario still being we get the same return if not more

In a nutshell: the Ducks pass

lmfao, It's just not at all how any of this works. You aren't even factoring in games played between the two. Teams don't just look at the stat sheet of one season, and pair up two trades and compare what they got, there are so many other factors in this. You are comparing these things like they are a math equation and not like a hockey trade for some very strange reason. Teams over pay and under pay all the time, nobody cares what player A got vs what player B got. Because if you want to do that, then I'm just going to hold the Tarasenko trade over your head.

Vatrano at full cap hit is worth a 1st, or a 1st and a minor pick/prospect, which I already said I'd throw in with no issues. It's not my fault your GM decided to retain 400k for no reason, because you'd get so much more if you could retain; you can look back at the many teams I've made where I did a 1st and Kakko for Vatrano + retention. We'll just have to come back to this Friday if a trade happens

It’s a simple trade comp. That is completely routine in the NHL, sports as a whole, and business in general. Is it perfect? No. That’s why it’s called a comp, it’s for comparison. Tarasenko would be considered a poor comp because he had a full no trade clause, effectively dictating where he could be traded, which completely changes the leverage dynamics of a trade because the acquiring team knows the seller has nobody else they can go to

I would love to come back to this on Friday. I just got to play this game with someone for Henrique. Unfortunately, in Vatrano’s case I’m rather confident he stays put because ANA will prefer to keep him unless someone offers something they can’t refuse (which will be more than a 1st). So the radio silence is going to imply that ANA isn’t willing to sell for what teams are willing to pay, but we won’t end up knowing what that willing payment was. That’s just my guess though, maybe I’m wrong. Let’s circle back Friday!

Either way, fun discussion. No ill will, wish your Rangers good luck 👍

And here we are. Unfortunately nothing definitive except that ANA’s willing price to sell was higher than the market’s willingness to buy. Pretty much exactly how we drew it up

Considering 6 years of retention on Hertl (arguably better than Vatrano in all aspects, and again, 6 years!) was worth pretty much nothing, I don't get what the hold up was here. But it is what it is. Maybe next year we can do it all again, bahaha...