Hawks should take a gamble on Kaapo

RESERVE LIST	YEARS	CAP HIT
Nazar, Frank	3	$950,000

RFA	YEARS	CAP HIT
Vlasic, Alex	4	$4,000,000
Reichel, Lukas	3	$1,750,000
Anderson, Joey	2	$1,000,000
Guttman, Cole	2	$1,000,000
Kakko, Kaapo	3	$2,500,000

CREATED	YEARS	CAP HIT
Eiserman, Cole	3	$925,000
Moore, Oliver	3	$925,000

ROSTER SIZE	SALARY CAP	CAP HIT	OVERAGES	BONUSES	CAP SPACE
26	$87,500,000	$65,707,500	$0	$6,422,500	$21,792,500

Left Wing	Centre	Right Wing
Eiserman, Cole $925,000$925,000	Bedard, Connor $950,000$950,000 ($3,500,000$4M) C RFA - 2	Kakko, Kaapo $2,500,000$2,500,000 RW RFA
Moore, Oliver $925,000$925,000	Nazar, Frank $950,000$950,000 RW, C RFA - 2	Athanasiou, Andreas $4,250,000$4,250,000 LW, RW UFA - 1
Reichel, Lukas $1,750,000$1,750,000 LW, C RFA	Dickinson, Jason $4,250,000$4,250,000 C, LW UFA - 2	Kurashev, Philipp $2,250,000$2,250,000 LW, C, RW RFA - 1
Slaggert, Landon $912,500$912,500 ($850,000$850K) LW RFA - 1	Foligno, Nick $4,500,000$4,500,000 LW, C, RW UFA - 2	Guttman, Cole $1,000,000$1,000,000 C RFA
	Dach, Colton $825,000$825,000 ($82,500$82K) C RFA - 2	Anderson, Joey $1,000,000$1,000,000 RW RFA

Left Defense	Right Defense	Goaltender
Vlasic, Alex $4,000,000$4,000,000 LD UFA - 6	Jones, Seth $9,500,000$9,500,000 RD NMC UFA - 6	Commesso, Drew $925,000$925,000 ($425,000$425K) G RFA - 2
Korchinski, Kevin $918,333$918,333 ($1,000,000$1M) LD RFA - 2	Murphy, Connor $4,400,000$4,400,000 RD M-NTC UFA - 2	Mrázek, Petr $4,250,000$4,250,000 G UFA - 2
Kaiser, Wyatt $916,667$916,667 ($425,000$425K) LD RFA - 1	Allan, Nolan $825,000$825,000 ($82,500$82K) LD RFA - 2	Söderblom, Arvid $962,500$962,500 G RFA - 1
Del Mastro, Ethan $855,833$855,833 ($57,500$58K) LD RFA - 2

Mar. 22 at 3:58 p.m.

#26

Joined: May 2015

Posts: 371

Likes: 312

Quoting: ChiHawk

There's not 1 player on the Hawks roster outside of Bedard that would be in the Rangers top 6, let alone top 9. The point is, a rebuilding team has the flexibility to take a flyer and not loose much if they can't extract more value from Kaapo and if not, they overpaid slightly. The Rangers on the other hand need help now and a 1st round pick gives them an asset to help them get help now that arguably is better than they would get for KK. At this point, he's probably worth a 2nd, so Hawks slightly overpay and Rangers get that asset to make a play for someone else.

Trades don't always happen in vacuums.

What do you base Kakko being worth a 2nd on? If the Rangers wanted to make a move to improve the team, why wouldn’t they just trade Kakko for an NHL player instead of making a trade that would necessitate another move?

Mar. 22 at 3:58 p.m.

#27

ChiHawk

Thread Starter

Joined: Apr. 2017

Posts: 19,029

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Quoting: Rags21

What Kakko is worth vs What it’ll take to pry him away from the Rangers are two completely different conversations….for some reason people on this site have a hard time understand

The rangers do NOT need picks. They need a top 6 RW of all things. So if that’s not what you’re offering then the trade dies

Quoting: Rags21

I never said the trade for be Kakko for a top 6 winger, 1 for 1….but that’s the only thing the rangers are missing

That 1st could easily be worse than Kakko, since it’ll be closer to a 2nd round pick lol

Dach hasn’t even proved he’s worth the risk yet

Kaapo is probably worth a 2nd to some rebuilding teams if Rangers tried to move him for a winger, his value as part of a trade will likely equal a 2nd. Hawks slightly overpay to take a flier on him given they are rebuilding....nobody on the Hawks roster is a top 6 player on a contending team outside of Bedard obviously so they can take risk. Rangers get a late 1st they can leverage, which again arguably has more value than Kaapo in a trade, to land an asset to help them now. That was my intent. Trades sometimes are not contemplated in isolation and are part of a larger plan.

Mar. 22 at 4:01 p.m.

#28

ChiHawk

Thread Starter

Joined: Apr. 2017

Posts: 19,029

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Quoting: Terrifiedofeveryone

What do you base Kakko being worth a 2nd on? If the Rangers wanted to make a move to improve the team, why wouldn’t they just trade Kakko for an NHL player instead of making a trade that would necessitate another move?

Easy, his results after 5 seasons puts him at a 2nd and I highly doubt there's even 2/3rds of the league that would pay a 2nd for him at this point and probably only 1 to 3 teams that would give up a 1st rounder. I could be wrong and you right but willing to bet I'm not far off.

Barring that, if the Hawks agree to slightly overpay versus going rate, Rangers do this all day if that 1st is more valuable then the Rangers can get for Kaapo in trade value for another player. Trades are a part of a larger strategy often times and aren't just in isolation. If the Rangers, assuming they test Kaapo's market to acquire another player, only has the value of a 2nd and one team (Hawks) offer a late 1st, they do it. Now they have more value to work with to get a player to help them now.

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Mar. 22 at 4:03 p.m.

#29

Terrifiedofeveryone

Joined: May 2015

Posts: 371

Likes: 312

Quoting: ChiHawk

Easy, his results after 5 seasons puts him at a 2nd. If the Hawks agree to slightly overpay versus going rate, Rangers do this all day if that 1st is more valuable then the Rangers can get for Kaapo in trade value for another player. Trades are a part of a larger strategy often times and aren't just in isolation. If the Rangers, assuming they test Kaapo's market to acquire another player, only has the value of a 2nd and one team (Hawks) offer a late 1st, they do it. Now they have more value to work with to get a player to help them now.

So it’s your own made-up valuation with no historical basis or backing logic, got it.

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Mar. 22 at 4:09 p.m.

#30

Rags21

Joined: Aug. 2021

Posts: 5,239

Likes: 2,278

Quoting: ChiHawk

Kaapo is probably worth a 2nd to some rebuilding teams if Rangers tried to move him for a winger, his value as part of a trade will likely equal a 2nd. Hawks slightly overpay to take a flier on him given they are rebuilding....nobody on the Hawks roster is a top 6 player on a contending team outside of Bedard obviously so they can take risk. Rangers get a late 1st they can leverage, which again arguably has more value than Kaapo in a trade, to land an asset to help them now. That was my intent. Trades sometimes are not contemplated in isolation and are part of a larger plan.

Again, you probably couldn’t propose a trade where that 1st probably lands someone better than Kakko (keep in mind: minimal powerplay time, cheap cap hit, young and controllable, right winger)

Mar. 22 at 4:14 p.m.

#31

Ujeje

Joined: Mar. 2023

Posts: 167

Likes: 86

Haven't seen too much NYR games, but what i've understood is that Kakko is actually elite defensively and puck possession monster with big body. Last year 40 points with 00:53 TOIPP and 15min TOI. Biggest problem has been converting possession to points (shooting more wouldn't hurt). The Kid Line clicked well last season, didn't work out with Zibanejad (who's actually having worst season since 2017-18) & Kreider for some reason. Change of scenery would prolly be the best for Kakko and he could be really good linemate for Bedard.

Has he been worth the 2OA? Absolutely not. Is he a good NHLer? Absolutely yes. Is he worth a late first? In my opinion yes.

That TOR 1st <-> Kakko would be a good deal for Chicago. Maybe helps Rangers to acquire a first line RW in another trade also. But i also understand why Rags fans wouldn't want to do it unless they can flip that pick & something else for proven Top 6 RW.

This is just outsiders opinion.

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Mar. 22 at 4:14 p.m.

#32

ChiHawk

Thread Starter

Joined: Apr. 2017

Posts: 19,029

Likes: 9,333

Quoting: Terrifiedofeveryone

So it’s your own made-up valuation with no historical basis or backing logic, got it.

Why are you getting aggressive, do you find I personally insulted you? Do you really think you know better by challenging what other's are saying on this post without providing historical basis or backing logic yourself to support your OPINION? Try looking in a mirror before responding to people's opinions aggressively.

Let's spell out the obvious...

From a offensive production standpoint...
He's a .38ppg career player after 5 seasons after 1 okay season last year boosting his offensive production to .48ppg
This season he's down to a .28ppg player, which is his worst offensive production in 5 seasons.
The arrow is trending the wrong way offensively. Beyond not finding a way to product offensively, another issue is his skating isn't the best at the pro level.

Defensively he's pretty good, not great, but pretty good which is his best quality in the NHL.

All signs point to him being a bottom 6 player, after 5 seasons, on a playoff team. Those types of players at most garner late 1sts and usually 2nds and 3rds. However, given his age and draft spot, there's a little left to predraft qualities that can boost him potentially to getting a late 1st...potentially.

So no, it's not a made-up valuation; take it down a notch guy.

Mar. 22 at 4:19 p.m.

#33

Terrifiedofeveryone

Joined: May 2015

Posts: 371

Likes: 312

Quoting: ChiHawk

Why are you getting aggressive, do you find I personally insulted you? Do you really think you know better by challenging what other's are saying on this post without providing historical basis or backing logic yourself to support your OPINION? Try looking in a mirror before responding to people's opinions aggressively.

Let's spell out the obvious...

From a offensive production standpoint...
He's a .38ppg career player after 5 seasons after 1 okay season last year boosting his offensive production to .48ppg
This season he's down to a .28ppg player, which is his worst offensive production in 5 seasons.
The arrow is trending the wrong way offensively. Beyond not finding a way to product offensively, another issue is his skating isn't the best at the pro level.

Defensively he's pretty good, not great, but pretty good which is his best quality in the NHL.

All signs point to him being a bottom 6 player, after 5 seasons, on a playoff team. Those types of players at most garner late 1sts and usually 2nds and 3rds. However, given his age and draft spot, there's a little left to predraft qualities that can boost him potentially to getting a late 1st...potentially.

So no, it's not a made-up valuation; take it down a notch guy.

Lmao if you consider my one sentence response refuting your claim aggressive then idk what to tell you. There’s an ignore function you are free to use.

Fox_Czar_Cup liked this.

Mar. 22 at 4:20 p.m.

#34

ChiHawk

Thread Starter

Joined: Apr. 2017

Posts: 19,029

Likes: 9,333

Quoting: Rags21

Again, you probably couldn’t propose a trade where that 1st probably lands someone better than Kakko (keep in mind: minimal powerplay time, cheap cap hit, young and controllable, right winger)

He's not really controlled right now. He's an RFA and only has a couple years of control left. He's also not getting much PP time or top 6 time anymore because he's proven he's not that player on a contender. I don't think Kaapo is worth more then a 2nd to most NHL teams, via a direct 2nd round in return or of equivalent value in a trade for a player. My point of view is the Rangers would get better value owning a 1st round pick to trade than Kaapo. I could be wrong of course, just based on what I've seen from him, read about from beat reporters/insiders, etc.

A rebuilding team may be willing to take a flier on Kaapo and they have the luxury of patience including letting him make mistakes in a top 6 role. Rangers don't have the patience for that. As such, there's only a handful of rebuilding teams that would have interest in Kaapo.

Let's try this as an alternative; Taylor Hall (half retained) and maybe a 3rd rounder for Kaapo...there's your top 6 player.

Mar. 22 at 4:21 p.m.

#35

ChiHawk

Thread Starter

Joined: Apr. 2017

Posts: 19,029

Likes: 9,333

Quoting: Terrifiedofeveryone

Lmao if you consider my one sentence response refuting your claim aggressive then idk what to tell you.

"So it’s your own made-up valuation with no historical basis or backing logic, got it."

Sarcastic and assumptive at a minimum; and honestly, not looking for you to tell me anything

Mar. 22 at 4:22 p.m.

#36

ChiHawk

Thread Starter

Joined: Apr. 2017

Posts: 19,029

Likes: 9,333

Quoting: Ujeje

Haven't seen too much NYR games, but what i've understood is that Kakko is actually elite defensively and puck possession monster with big body. Last year 40 points with 00:53 TOIPP and 15min TOI. Biggest problem has been converting possession to points (shooting more wouldn't hurt). The Kid Line clicked well last season, didn't work out with Zibanejad (who's actually having worst season since 2017-18) & Kreider for some reason. Change of scenery would prolly be the best for Kakko and he could be really good linemate for Bedard.

Has he been worth the 2OA? Absolutely not. Is he a good NHLer? Absolutely yes. Is he worth a late first? In my opinion yes.

That TOR 1st <-> Kakko would be a good deal for Chicago. Maybe helps Rangers to acquire a first line RW in another trade also. But i also understand why Rags fans wouldn't want to do it unless they can flip that pick & something else for proven Top 6 RW.

This is just outsiders opinion.

Agree with what you said with the exception of being defensively elite. He's good, not great defensively IMO. But my logic in this is close to what you shared otherwise.

Ujeje liked this.

Mar. 22 at 4:24 p.m.

#37

Stanley_Cup_To_Manhattan

Am Yisrael Chai

Joined: Oct. 2018

Posts: 18,611

Likes: 6,744

Quoting: ChiHawk

Kaapo is not worth Moore, Rinzel or Nazar; not a chance. At best he may get a late 1st but more likely a 2nd rounder is about the best the Rangers can expect in return.

That's why they'd consider it, anything less isn't worth trading him. I agree his trade value isn't top prospect level but they'd keep him before selling for less than a 1st round pick value.

Mar. 22 at 4:54 p.m.

#38

NYR1983

Joined: Sep. 2020

Posts: 6,273

Likes: 2,535

Quoting: ChiHawk

He's likely worth a 2nd for a flyer, but Rangers fans go crazy so was being generous

Fun fact… regardless of your feelings towards his value or NYR reiterating the fact that he isn’t being moved… it’s not because we want an outrageous package and that he’s an untouchable player. It’s that Drury has been very open about him not being on the table unless it were part of acquiring an upgrade with term. So in its simplest form. They don’t want picks, they want to acquire an established name. So… this 1st isn’t moving the needle the same way Kakko doesn’t move the needle for you. So Bustko and Bustfreniere are staying put in NY

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Mar. 22 at 4:57 p.m.

#39

Rags21

Joined: Aug. 2021

Posts: 5,239

Likes: 2,278

Quoting: ChiHawk

He's not really controlled right now. He's an RFA and only has a couple years of control left. He's also not getting much PP time or top 6 time anymore because he's proven he's not that player on a contender. I don't think Kaapo is worth more then a 2nd to most NHL teams, via a direct 2nd round in return or of equivalent value in a trade for a player. My point of view is the Rangers would get better value owning a 1st round pick to trade than Kaapo. I could be wrong of course, just based on what I've seen from him, read about from beat reporters/insiders, etc.

A rebuilding team may be willing to take a flier on Kaapo and they have the luxury of patience including letting him make mistakes in a top 6 role. Rangers don't have the patience for that. As such, there's only a handful of rebuilding teams that would have interest in Kaapo.

Let's try this as an alternative; Taylor Hall (half retained) and maybe a 3rd rounder for Kaapo...there's your top 6 player.

The rangers still need good, 2 way cheap players. Not to mention he is their only RW on the roster minus Laffy. Whoever they get with Kakko or the 1st still isn’t gonna be on the powerplay and probably would be the 6th best player in the top 6 lol

Taylor Hall is an aging, declining vet who only has 1 year left and doesn’t fit their timeline. Try again lol

Mar. 22 at 7:47 p.m.

#40

ChiHawk

Thread Starter

Joined: Apr. 2017

Posts: 19,029

Likes: 9,333

Quoting: NYR1983

Fun fact… regardless of your feelings towards his value or NYR reiterating the fact that he isn’t being moved… it’s not because we want an outrageous package and that he’s an untouchable player. It’s that Drury has been very open about him not being on the table unless it were part of acquiring an upgrade with term. So in its simplest form. They don’t want picks, they want to acquire an established name. So… this 1st isn’t moving the needle the same way Kakko doesn’t move the needle for you. So Bustko and Bustfreniere are staying put in NY

Fun fact, if Drury thinks a 1st is more valuable than Kaapo, like any GM, he trades him to utilize the first to get something he couldn't by trading Kaapo because at the end of the day....players or draft picks are just assets. Also a fun fact, you aren't Drury and neither am I so I avoid acting like I know what will happen and instead discuss opinions.

Mar. 22 at 7:49 p.m.

#41

ChiHawk

Thread Starter

Joined: Apr. 2017

Posts: 19,029

Likes: 9,333

Edited Mar. 22 at 8:04 p.m.

Quoting: Rags21

The rangers still need good, 2 way cheap players. Not to mention he is their only RW on the roster minus Laffy. Whoever they get with Kakko or the 1st still isn’t gonna be on the powerplay and probably would be the 6th best player in the top 6 lol

Taylor Hall is an aging, declining vet who only has 1 year left and doesn’t fit their timeline. Try again lol

Hence why Kaapo is still on the Rangers...top 6 guys who move the needle don't grow on trees and certainly won't unless the Rangers give up a lot more than Kaapo. But better than having a player sit on the bench for parts of the playoffs like Kaapo did last season!

.

Anyway, just spitballing ideas here. The Rangers window is open and I personally don't think Kaapo is given a long enough leash on the Rangers to develop.

Mar. 22 at 8:21 p.m.

#42

NYR1983

Joined: Sep. 2020

Posts: 6,273

Likes: 2,535

Quoting: ChiHawk

Fun fact, if Drury thinks a 1st is more valuable than Kaapo, like any GM, he trades him to utilize the first to get something he couldn't by trading Kaapo because at the end of the day....players or draft picks are just assets. Also a fun fact, you aren't Drury and neither am I so I avoid acting like I know what will happen and instead discuss opinions.

Reread what I wrote.. he doesn’t value the 1st more than Kakko. Drury wouldn’t move him in a guentzl trade.. he also spoke to media saying he’s happy with the progress and is being very patient. Read between the lines bud. I’m not drury, I’m listening and seeing what he’s saying and doing. Body language is telling. He values him more than a 1st lol

Mar. 22 at 10:27 p.m.

#43

Snowhawk18

Snowhawk

Joined: Jul. 2022

Posts: 2,368

Likes: 3,366

I personally wouldn’t trade for Kakko, the fact that he is regressing in year five is seriously concerning. Additionally, the Hawks have their own struggling former 1st round pick to straighten out.

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Mar. 22 at 10:36 p.m.

#44

dgibb10

I Love J Boqvist

Joined: Jan. 2023

Posts: 11,903

Likes: 3,138

Quoting: Rags21

Again, you probably couldn’t propose a trade where that 1st probably lands someone better than Kakko (keep in mind: minimal powerplay time, cheap cap hit, young and controllable, right winger)

Maybe you could use a 1st next deadline to get a rental winger better than him but that’s about it. Certainly nobody with term, unless they have an expensive contract, which NYR can’t afford.

I think Kakko is a fraudulent bust bum, but the market was set by Montreal with the Newhook trade.

Kakko is a cost controlled middle 6 winger with upside. Defensively solid as well. He’d fetch a 1st. (Still a fraud tho)

ChiHawk liked this.

Mar. 22 at 10:53 p.m.

#45

Rags21

Joined: Aug. 2021

Posts: 5,239

Likes: 2,278

Quoting: dgibb10

Maybe you could use a 1st next deadline to get a rental winger better than him but that’s about it. Certainly nobody with term, unless they have an expensive contract, which NYR can’t afford.

I think Kakko is a fraudulent bust bum, but the market was set by Montreal with the Newhook trade.

Kakko is a cost controlled middle 6 winger with upside. Defensively solid as well. He’d fetch a 1st. (Still a fraud tho)

You still don’t throw away a player you can keep for a rental lol

Rentals aren’t a guarantee at winning the cup and you still need 2 way players who do more than just score

Mar. 22 at 10:55 p.m.

#46

Rags21

Joined: Aug. 2021

Posts: 5,239

Likes: 2,278

Quoting: ChiHawk

Hence why Kaapo is still on the Rangers...top 6 guys who move the needle don't grow on trees and certainly won't unless the Rangers give up a lot more than Kaapo. But better than having a player sit on the bench for parts of the playoffs like Kaapo did last season!

.

Anyway, just spitballing ideas here. The Rangers window is open and I personally don't think Kaapo is given a long enough leash on the Rangers to develop.

You do realize the moron coach who did that is fired and hasn’t been re-hired lol Lavi is a different and better coach who knows where Kakko strives

The rangers also don’t have the cap space luxury to go out and get a top 6 winger like Tuch, Batherson, Buch, Guentzel lol

Mar. 22 at 10:59 p.m.

#47

dgibb10

I Love J Boqvist

Joined: Jan. 2023

Posts: 11,903

Likes: 3,138

Quoting: Rags21

You still don’t throw away a player you can keep for a rental lol

Rentals aren’t a guarantee at winning the cup and you still need 2 way players who do more than just score

I 100% agree but I’m saying that’s the only way that a late 1st would turn into a top 6 upgrade that NYR can afford cap wise.

Mar. 22 at 11:20 p.m.

#48

Rags21

Joined: Aug. 2021

Posts: 5,239

Likes: 2,278

Quoting: dgibb10

I 100% agree but I’m saying that’s the only way that a late 1st would turn into a top 6 upgrade that NYR can afford cap wise.

Yea but the problem is that I can’t even think of 1 RW that’s affordable cap wise with term and probably the age of 24-28 that could be had for a 1st

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Mar. 22 at 11:22 p.m.

#49

dgibb10

I Love J Boqvist

Joined: Jan. 2023

Posts: 11,903

Likes: 3,138

Quoting: Rags21

Yea but the problem is that I can’t even think of 1 RW that’s affordable cap wise with term and probably the age of 24-28 that could be had for a 1st

Ironically, the only way to get a chance at one for a late 1st would probably be, checks notes, going after a guy like Kaapo Kakko and seeing if he can reach the next level.

Like if the rangers didn't have Kakko I'd be suggesting him as a target. No idea why fanbases on here think he should be thrown away. But among the most undervalued assets on capfriendly vs real life, are young, quality NHLer roster players with upside, as long as they're on a team said person isn't a fan of.

Mar. 22 at 11:51 p.m.

#50

Fox_Czar_Cup

B

Joined: Apr. 2016

Posts: 7,958

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We'd get Way more than Newhook or Lundkvist, but picks wouldn't cut it anyway. Like Kreider Chytil Laf, we'll wait for him to collect more points, while being a big solid player.

Draft	Round 1	Round 2	Round 3	Round 4	Round 5	Round 6	Round 7
2024
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Scratches	Injured Reserve (IR)	Long Term IR (LTIR)
Hall, Taylor $6,000,000$6,000,000 LW M-NTC, NMC UFA - 1
Donato, Ryan $2,000,000$2,000,000 LW, C, RW UFA - 1

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