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v2 Discussion Thread

Aug. 17, 2017 at 9:33 p.m.
#76
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Cap - the market will adjust accordingly once it determines that GMs make terrible trades.

RAIF:

Suggestion 1 : They would be demoted to AGM of their former team.
Suggestion 2 : v1 has nothing to do with firing in v2.
Suggestion 3 : GMs get fired if they make constant trades that the BOE deems destructive
Suggestion 4 : the BOE will not involve itself with what the individual GM wants to do. That is their private decision to make, not the BOE to determine which players should be traded.
Aug. 17, 2017 at 9:33 p.m.
#77
V3 Canucks GM, BOG
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Quoting: rangersandislesfan
I actually don't feel that we should have a trade limit at the deadline ... or at least not on deadline day ... chances of a team making like, 7-20 trades in less than a day are pretty small.


So then why not just have the limit just in case?
Aug. 17, 2017 at 9:34 p.m.
#78
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Quoting: TonyStrecher
Quoting: rangersandislesfan
I actually don't feel that we should have a trade limit at the deadline ... or at least not on deadline day ... chances of a team making like, 7-20 trades in less than a day are pretty small.


So then why not just have the limit just in case?


There isn't a TDL. From the start of v2 until the draft regular season. from draft until start of season is offseason
Aug. 17, 2017 at 9:37 p.m.
#79
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Quoting: phillyjabroni
Cap - the market will adjust accordingly once it determines that GMs make terrible trades.

RAIF:

Suggestion 1 : They would be demoted to AGM of their former team.
Suggestion 2 : v1 has nothing to do with firing in v2.
Suggestion 3 : GMs get fired if they make constant trades that the BOE deems destructive
Suggestion 4 : the BOE will not involve itself with what the individual GM wants to do. That is their private decision to make, not the BOE to determine which players should be traded.


ok
Aug. 17, 2017 at 9:38 p.m.
#80
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Quoting: TonyStrecher
Quoting: rangersandislesfan
I actually don't feel that we should have a trade limit at the deadline ... or at least not on deadline day ... chances of a team making like, 7-20 trades in less than a day are pretty small.


So then why not just have the limit just in case?

i mean, we could have the limit but it would have to be pretty big, like 7 or 8 trades limit on deadline day.
Aug. 17, 2017 at 9:41 p.m.
#81
V3 Canucks GM, BOG
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Quoting: rangersandislesfan
Quoting: TonyStrecher


So then why not just have the limit just in case?

i mean, we could have the limit but it would have to be pretty big, like 7 or 8 trades limit on deadline day.


Has an NHL team ever made 7 or 8 trades on deadline day?
Aug. 17, 2017 at 9:43 p.m.
#82
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Quoting: TonyStrecher
Quoting: rangersandislesfan

i mean, we could have the limit but it would have to be pretty big, like 7 or 8 trades limit on deadline day.


Has an NHL team ever made 7 or 8 trades on deadline day?


Nah the most is probably 4 or 5 but that's just speculated
Aug. 17, 2017 at 10:15 p.m.
#83
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DirtyDangles ---> engaged
F50Marco ---> engaged
Jt_Miller ---> hasn't engaged
Math ---> hasn't engaged
plNHL ---> hasn't engaged
ricochetti ---> engaged
WerenskiWarrior ---> hasn't engaged
WhisperWhisper ---> hasn't engaged
Aug. 17, 2017 at 10:15 p.m.
#84
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Quoting: phillyjabroni
Cap - the market will adjust accordingly once it determines that GMs make terrible trades.

RAIF:

Suggestion 1 : They would be demoted to AGM of their former team.
Suggestion 2 : v1 has nothing to do with firing in v2.
Suggestion 3 : GMs get fired if they make constant trades that the BOE deems destructive
Suggestion 4 : the BOE will not involve itself with what the individual GM wants to do. That is their private decision to make, not the BOE to determine which players should be traded.


But people are supporting the idea, and having that before hand would be crucial to the success of V2 IMO.
Aug. 17, 2017 at 10:21 p.m.
#85
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I feel that GMs shouldn't be exempt from a second chance because they made some downright terrible trades in v1. If anything, the BOE can issue a warning saying that if they make trades like that that they did in v1 in v2, there job security would be suspect.

The market will determine who is good and who is bad based on the very first trade that is made. GMs will be called out more because the BOE rates their trades. It will be a warning shot to everyone once a GM is fired 
Aug. 17, 2017 at 10:57 p.m.
#86
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1 horrendous trade and they get fired or 2 really bad trades.

2 horrendous trades could upset the balance of the game which is why I feel 1 should be grounds for dismissal.

Ex. John klingberg for Zaitsev and Letang (50%)
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Aug. 17, 2017 at 11:06 p.m.
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Quoting: DirtyDangles
1 horrendous trade and they get fired or 2 really bad trades.

2 horrendous trades could upset the balance of the game which is why I feel 1 should be grounds for dismissal.

Ex. John klingberg for Zaitsev and Letang (50%)


Ex... Karlsson for Barrie @Zach <3
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Aug. 17, 2017 at 11:09 p.m.
#88
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Quoting: DirtyDangles
1 horrendous trade and they get fired or 2 really bad trades.

2 horrendous trades could upset the balance of the game which is why I feel 1 should be grounds for dismissal.

Ex. John klingberg for Zaitsev and Letang (50%)


one asinine trade shouldn't correlate to dismissal. if that individual makes a trade like Klingberg for Zaitsev and Letang 50% again, they will be fired. A warning would be issued to the GM that makes a trade like that to explain to them why the trade was bad and how another similar trade would be detrimental to the integrity of the game
Aug. 17, 2017 at 11:10 p.m.
#89
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Quoting: phillyjabroni
Quoting: DirtyDangles
1 horrendous trade and they get fired or 2 really bad trades.

2 horrendous trades could upset the balance of the game which is why I feel 1 should be grounds for dismissal.

Ex. John klingberg for Zaitsev and Letang (50%)


one asinine trade shouldn't correlate to dismissal. if that individual makes a trade like Klingberg for Zaitsev and Letang 50% again, they will be fired. A warning would be issued to the GM that makes a trade like that to explain to them why the trade was bad and how another similar trade would be detrimental to the integrity of the game


Well as I said, 2 horrendous trades from 3-4 people could completely upset the balance of the game.
Aug. 17, 2017 at 11:17 p.m.
#90
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Quoting: DirtyDangles
Quoting: phillyjabroni


one asinine trade shouldn't correlate to dismissal. if that individual makes a trade like Klingberg for Zaitsev and Letang 50% again, they will be fired. A warning would be issued to the GM that makes a trade like that to explain to them why the trade was bad and how another similar trade would be detrimental to the integrity of the game


Well as I said, 2 horrendous trades from 3-4 people could completely upset the balance of the game.


Then they would be reverted via discretion of the BOE and subsequently the GM who made the trades would be fired.
Aug. 17, 2017 at 11:26 p.m.
#91
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Well firing GMs would usually be later i'd guess. If the BOE feels a trade was meant as a joke, it will not be allowed, but if the team later doesn't look great and a trade turned out to be bad, eventually the GM could get fired. Just my opinion.
Aug. 17, 2017 at 11:47 p.m.
#92
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Connection went wonky earlier. This was supposed to be posted before the last several posts. Sticking Out Tongue

RE: Retained salary - Having a poor retention decision rated poorly, doesn't negate the impact when it happens.

(Mr_Cap) BOE overturning trades - I must have overlooked this part as well. I thought the point of the BOE was to approve trades prior to them being made official. Similar to how teams submit the paperwork IRL and then the league has to approve. This would be a more efficient process I would think. Rather than having GM's make a mess by processing and re-processing trades. You should consider a trade submission thread, coupled with an official trade thread. The BOE approves of the submitted trades and announces them in the official thread once they are approved.
Forgive me if I missed this as well: Does a void/rejected trade proposal count towards the trade number restriction?

-------------

Quoting: rangersandislesfan
Quoting: Mr_cap
How about with each trade offer that is proposed, we have the BOE vote on it and if 2/3 agree then it will go through.

So before posting the deal in the official thread, it will have to be posted in a separate thread probs called 'proposed deals thread' and the BOE reviews it.

I like this idea but for a BOE to vote for the deal not happening they have to think it's very unfair i'd say, like if something a little bit unfair then they should vote no just because it's a little bit off in value.

Edit: I'm pretty much saying they should only say no to letting the deal happen if they feel it was meant as a joke.


Not so much "joke" trades, which should be pretty obvious to deny, but "unrealistic" trades might be a better term.

- All of my 2018 picks for a player, for example, which has happened a few times in v1, is just ridiculous. Even if the value is "fair", no team does that, ever.
- Retaining 50% of a 7 year, $7M dollar contract is not realistic. Especially when it is a player currently deserving of $7M/year. You trade him in year 6 or 7 at 50%, at most.
- Every player with a cap hit higher than it should be based on their performance, is not a "cap dump". Fayne, who has spent most of his time in the minors, is a cap dump. If a player has played 60 or more NHL games in the last season, he's probably not a cap dump. You might have to retain, take salary back, and/or give them up for a low return, but you're ordinarily better off keeping the player than giving up assets to get rid of him.
Aug. 17, 2017 at 11:47 p.m.
#93
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Quoting: rangersandislesfan
Well firing GMs would usually be later i'd guess. If the BOE feels a trade was meant as a joke, it will not be allowed, but if the team later doesn't look great and a trade turned out to be bad, eventually the GM could get fired. Just my opinion.


Joke trades will not be tolerated. GM firings would be utilized if the BOE feels that a series of trades are detrimental to the team and/or the integrity of the v2 game.
Aug. 17, 2017 at 11:53 p.m.
#94
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Rico - I like the idea of having the BOE pass trades, but the BOE isn't supposed to be policing what teams trade, unless it is seriously detrimental to the game. Having the BOE simply veto a trade would be easier instead of processing a maximum of 60 trades a month (4 x 15)

Heres an example of a trade that would be rated poorly, but not revered IMO:

Pittsburgh Penguins
Matt Duchene

Colorado Avalanche
Conor Sheary
2018 1st round pick (PIT)

Based on advanced analytics, Sheary only thrives when with Crosby. When without, he is a bottom-six player at best. This trade would not be vetoed IMO because the trade isn't horrendous seeing as how Duchene's contract is up shortly, but the return isn't max potential.
Aug. 17, 2017 at 11:57 p.m.
#95
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Quoting: ricochetii
Connection went wonky earlier. This was supposed to be posted before the last several posts. Sticking Out Tongue

RE: Retained salary - Having a poor retention decision rated poorly, doesn't negate the impact when it happens.

(Mr_Cap) BOE overturning trades - I must have overlooked this part as well. I thought the point of the BOE was to approve trades prior to them being made official. Similar to how teams submit the paperwork IRL and then the league has to approve. This would be a more efficient process I would think. Rather than having GM's make a mess by processing and re-processing trades. You should consider a trade submission thread, coupled with an official trade thread. The BOE approves of the submitted trades and announces them in the official thread once they are approved.
Forgive me if I missed this as well: Does a void/rejected trade proposal count towards the trade number restriction?

-------------

Quoting: rangersandislesfan

I like this idea but for a BOE to vote for the deal not happening they have to think it's very unfair i'd say, like if something a little bit unfair then they should vote no just because it's a little bit off in value.

Edit: I'm pretty much saying they should only say no to letting the deal happen if they feel it was meant as a joke.


Not so much "joke" trades, which should be pretty obvious to deny, but "unrealistic" trades might be a better term.

- All of my 2018 picks for a player, for example, which has happened a few times in v1, is just ridiculous. Even if the value is "fair", no team does that, ever.
- Retaining 50% of a 7 year, $7M dollar contract is not realistic. Especially when it is a player currently deserving of $7M/year. You trade him in year 6 or 7 at 50%, at most.
- Every player with a cap hit higher than it should be based on their performance, is not a "cap dump". Fayne, who has spent most of his time in the minors, is a cap dump. If a player has played 60 or more NHL games in the last season, he's probably not a cap dump. You might have to retain, take salary back, and/or give them up for a low return, but you're ordinarily better off keeping the player than giving up assets to get rid of him.


Very Ironic.
Aug. 18, 2017 at 12:04 a.m.
#96
Go Habs Go
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Quoting: phillyjabroni
Rico - I like the idea of having the BOE pass trades, but the BOE isn't supposed to be policing what teams trade, unless it is seriously detrimental to the game. Having the BOE simply veto a trade would be easier instead of processing a maximum of 60 trades a month (4 x 15)

Heres an example of a trade that would be rated poorly, but not revered IMO:

Pittsburgh Penguins
Matt Duchene

Colorado Avalanche
Conor Sheary
2018 1st round pick (PIT)

Based on advanced analytics, Sheary only thrives when with Crosby. When without, he is a bottom-six player at best. This trade would not be vetoed IMO because the trade isn't horrendous seeing as how Duchene's contract is up shortly, but the return isn't max potential.


Either way technically works or serves the purpose. It's just easier to filter things from the start than to clean them up after the fact.
I won't be the one doing the cleaning, so consider it as a caution for anyone that will be on the BOE. Sticking Out Tongue

Anyway, I've noted my concerns/opinions.

Aside from the limits (minimum/maximum numbers) of trades debate, I'd say the rest is acceptable as is.
Room for improvement, perhaps, but acceptable.
Aug. 18, 2017 at 12:06 a.m.
#97
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I approve of the plan as is. I'd like to see a couple of changes, but I'm not concerned enough to withhold support.

EDIT: Provided you fix that decimal/percent thing. It drives me nuts. Sticking Out Tongue
Aug. 18, 2017 at 12:22 a.m.
#98
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Quoting: ricochetii
I approve of the plan as is. I'd like to see a couple of changes, but I'm not concerned enough to withhold support.

EDIT: Provided you fix that decimal/percent thing. It drives me nuts. Sticking Out Tongue


I refuse to change the decimal precent LOL. Nah, I'll change it an put you down.
Aug. 18, 2017 at 4:11 p.m.
#99
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Bump - still waiting on the following:
DirtyDangles ---> engaged
F50Marco ---> engaged
Jt_Miller ---> hasn't engaged
Math ---> hasn't engaged
plNHL ---> hasn't engaged
WerenskiWarrior ---> hasn't engaged
WhisperWhisper ---> hasn't engaged
Aug. 18, 2017 at 5:02 p.m.
#100
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I approve as well as long as we have more discussions on number of trades restrictions.
 
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