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Forum: Armchair-GMJun. 15, 2021 at 6:53 p.m.
Thread: RagsandBluesFan Idea
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Lunatik</b></div><div>No one is paying for Jonathan Drouin unless they are braindead. Even most Habs fans agree they will have to pay to get rid of him. Trading Gaudreau for Anderson and Drouin would be up there with the Gilmour and Marc Savard trades for worst in franchise history.

Flames don't even look at Drouin unless the Habs 1st is coming back with him.

I suggest stop reading spreadsheets and actually watch the game because you clearly don't know the kind of player Drouin is, especially of you are suggesting he play on a shutdown line.</div></div>

That translates to, "Don't look at stats cause I don't understand them" Got it.

Ignore every other part of this and just do your best with what you have to understand that money wise getting a long term RW that scores and Drouin off the books in two years for a guy who will not stick with either team makes a hell of a lot more sense than letting him cripple the Flames bargaining power with a 5 team trade list where he walks at the end of the year for nothing. I now understand why you're a fan of a perpetually mediocre team.
Forum: Armchair-GMJun. 15, 2021 at 3:24 p.m.
Thread: RagsandBluesFan Idea
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Lunatik</b></div><div>The Flames aren't going to massively downgrade their top 6 and give up extra pieces to take on a guy they could get for at worst, while adding almost 5m in salary cap</div></div>

So this is a completely inaccurate statement then and we can move past that?

<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Lunatik</b></div><div>Signing Hyman doesn't excuse the **** sandwich of a Gaudreau trade.</div></div>

As for this comment, Gaudreau moves on from either team at the end of this year, if he goes to Philly with no return every Flames fan here will be whining about that at the end of next season, every team in the NHL knows this and will negotiate as such. Anderson is a right shot shooter that plays a big 200 ft game, fits phenomenally with what Sutter wants and on a line with Tkachuk and Lindholm, that is a terribly hard line to play against and they have a true shooter on that line to feed that isn't Monahan putting it a mile high and wide from the slot.

Drouin playing with Backlund would be great for Drouin, find a guy that played beside Backlund that didn't have an immediate uptick in accountability across their entire game, worked for Tkachuk, worked for Mangiapane, they're key parts in the line up now. Drouin has super similar posession numbers to Gaudreau, similar D zone and O zone stars, career .6 PPG, a lot of good numbers there to add that guy to your bottom six. If it doesn't work out absolutely perfectly then the Flames are done with 17.125 million in cap at the end of two seasons to reassess.
Forum: Armchair-GMJun. 15, 2021 at 3:09 p.m.
Thread: RagsandBluesFan Idea
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Lunatik</b></div><div>Dude this idea is a terrible one.

Drouin makes 5.5m for 2 more years and he's had questionable attitude problems his entire career. The Habs are going to have to pay to get rid of him. The Flames aren't going to massively downgrade their top 6 and give up extra pieces to take on a guy they could get for at worst, while adding almost 5m in salary cap</div></div>

A top six of:
Tkachuk - Lindholm - Anderson
Mangiapane - Monahan - Hyman

is way better than
Gaudreau - Monahan - Ritchie/Bennett/Leivo/Simon/Dube/Ryan
Tkachuk - Lindhom - Mangiapane

That's not even remotely close to the same level of top six.
Having two actual right wingers on the team would make a world of difference opposed to the dumpster that was continuously rolled out there this year.

<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>flamesfan</b></div><div>Flames decline, gaudreau will be staying in Calgary. Neither of those players interest calgary</div></div>

What motivation does GAudreau have to stay? Unless he is over paid in Calgary why would he re sign a deal before testing the market and seeing what Philly, NJ, the NY's, Boston etc have to offer? He's not winning here, they're constantly sticking him with Monahan cause it's the only way Monahan is successful, there is no solid base to build a cup contender with. Why does Johnny Gaudreau pick Calgary over any other market?
Forum: Armchair-GMJun. 11, 2021 at 12:50 p.m.
Thread: Long Time Listener First Time Caller
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>TrueCanuck</b></div><div>Matthews and Nylander aren't playoff performers - that's why Toronto hasn't made it past the first round with them. Don't know why Toronto is brought into the conversation, that seems like a weak point to try to justify something that's already wrong on your behalf.

It's still funny that you think Dvorak is a "lesser player" merely based on points per game when you clearly ignore the other factors that I pointed out that affect Dvorak's point totals. Did you miss them just to try to justify your point more?

So over those same 4 years, you expect Arizona to rather pay Monahan $12.125M for 2 seasons, plus whatever he signs for (lets say it the same AAV he's currently on, so $6.375M x 2 = $12.750), so now Arizona pays $24.875M for a player, instead of $19.7M. That doesn't seem cheaper. Or do you just expect Arizona to let Monahan walk to free agency and then lose this deal even more? That doesn't make any sense at all either.

As for your Lybushkin for Kylington and a 2nd, it's not about the value. Arizona just signed Lybushkin to an extension so he obviously is liked by the team, and plays a different role than Kylington does. Lybushkin is right handed and has more experience than Kylington does. Lybushkin plays a defensive style that fits what Arizona likes to play where Kylington doesn't. Kylington has also barely cracked the league, and he was on waivers this last season so if a team wanted him they coulda had him for free - he's not that valuable right now.

So again, the more you look at it, this doesn't make any sense for Arizona. They lose the better player (again, don't just look at PPG as the only stat to judge a player), the cheaper player, and the more experienced defenceman.

If you don't like discussion, then don't be on this site. Don't back away from it just because people show you that your idea doesn't work for the other team.

Have a good day.</div></div>

It's two players with similar stats in the playoffs, if you can't see a simple comparison as nothing more than "bringing Toronto into the conversation" then it's extremely clear why you can't understand the rest.

Your points are all incredibly full of holes it's embarrassing. If you made a justifiable point then it would be worth a conversation but you tried to use the team around the two players to compare them when advanced stats show Monahan as a better player and they're used to isolate a player regardless of his surrounding cast. No one is merely using points per game, it's a very simple comparison if you just put a quarter ounce of effort in. Possession metrics in a down year for Monahan lean towards him, the last three years of production compared all lean towards Monahan. You trying to make Dvorak the best player in this deal is just a toddler throwing a tantrum cause you're wrong and need to feel right.

https://frozenpool.dobbersports.com/frozenpool_compare.php?players%5B%5D=4194&amp;players%5B%5D=3870&amp;period=2020-2021%3AR%3A99

Money wise Monahan can take up Kessel's cap hit in two years or walk away from the Coyotes like they're contracts are set up to do by 2022, they have 5 contracts that extend past next season, they're clearly not overly worried about long term retention. This is a very simple situation.

Anyone who spent more than 15 minutes watching the NHL this year knows that a player going on waivers doesn't mean anything close to what it meant in other years, another extraordinarily ​soft point.

Hahah back away from it, christ, no one is backing away, just tuning out delusional white noise.

As long as you FEEL right I'm happy for ya! Take your ball, go home, I promise no one will miss your commentary.
Forum: Armchair-GMJun. 10, 2021 at 5:03 p.m.
Thread: Long Time Listener First Time Caller
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>yycofred</b></div><div>you dont see many deals for dvorak on here cause i just dont think anyone has a great read on what he is worth and its tough to find a coyotes fan that will give you their thoughts, as displayed by only leaf fans responding.
i like the columbus trade a lot but like the jackets fan said above it seems like a trust the devil you know over the devil you dont situation.

also good luck with the canuck guy, its like talking to a toddler after you take away his toys, could be one of the worst on here, great option for your first ignore list.</div></div>

What other targets could you see similar to Bemstrom?

Hahaha I could see that, like I said, long time listener, I have lurked this site long enough to take what he says with a grain of salt and probably just disregard what he thinks.
Forum: Armchair-GMJun. 10, 2021 at 4:56 p.m.
Thread: Long Time Listener First Time Caller
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>palhal</b></div><div>u
Gaudreau will be 28 years old this summer He is looking at "big deal" this summer of next...with a organization he wants to play for. Not waiting till he is 31 to 33 to sign elsewhere.

RFAs are getting paid close to UFA money...and as we have seen lately they don't want to wait around to wait to be UFA free in their latter years.

Just my opinion, the culture of the Flamers isn't good. Gaudreau and Tkachuk have no motivation to stay longer than their required 7 years in Calgary.</div></div>

He can look as much as he likes, just like Taylor Hall did, Mike Hoffman, Vatanen, Hamonic etc. It's a flat cap, he can get a deal that gets him to when the cap inflates and get paid by a team he wants to play for. Philly has their own cap problems as long as the cap stays flat, they need to give Couturier a blank cheque, pay Hart, decide what to do with Giroux etc, etc, they won't be chomping at the bit to pay Gaudreau what he wants long term in a flat cap world.

I'm not sure if you're under the impression that Gaudreau is a RFA? I think we are crossing wires here.

It's not, that's what I mentioned in my last comment, Sutter and Muller coming in, a shift in culture this summer and building around Tkachuk keeps him here no problem. The only issue I see is if he regresses again and Calgary is forced to pay him 9 on his QO
Forum: Armchair-GMJun. 10, 2021 at 4:29 p.m.
Thread: Long Time Listener First Time Caller
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>palhal</b></div><div>Oh, I believe the Flames want to resign Gaudreau....I'm just saying Gaudreau would prefer to take his qualifying offer this summer (or be traded) and become a UFA in summer of 2022
Just saying Tkachuk will be in the same position as Gaudreau next summer. I don't see him wanting to sign long term with the very middling Flames team.</div></div>

There is no qualifying offer for Gaudreau, he will either be extended or traded by July 28th before his 5 team list kicks in, I personally think it will be an extension because Gaudreau at the end of the year really kicked it in gear under Sutter, Gaudreau, Lindholm, Tkachuk were really strong at the end of the year and I think he stays for a few years before the cap kicks up and then he can walk to Philly after a 3-5 year deal.
Tkachuk is an interesting one, I think a culture change keeps Tkachuk here, I think there is zero hint of a discount to stay in Calgary if he does though. If there was a deal in place for him this year that involved Eichel, Marner, Reinhart++, it would be hard not to consider with his 9 million due 2022
Forum: Armchair-GMJun. 10, 2021 at 4:19 p.m.
Thread: Long Time Listener First Time Caller
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>palhal</b></div><div>Gotta think Arizona prefers four years of Dvorak to two years of Monahan.
IMO it's just a Flame dream that Gaudreau is going to sign long term in Calgary. By the way Tkachuk can be a UFA after two more seasons.</div></div>

Could see that depending on where they think they are going, with Schmaltz already there making 5+, Hayton and Jenik coming up the ranks their C ice position is pretty well looked after in a couple years and with only 17.45 million tied up in forwards for the 2022-23 season as it stands right now it would look like a really good time for Arizona to reset.

I think Gaudreau is in line for a 3-5 year extension in Calgary, not the ultra long term deal but they will pay a little more for less term, I think either way it happens before July 28th or he is traded before July 28th

I have no idea what your Tkachuk comment has to do with anything above..
Forum: Armchair-GMJun. 10, 2021 at 4:07 p.m.
Thread: Long Time Listener First Time Caller
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>TrueCanuck</b></div><div>Monahan doesn't perform when it's needed most - playoffs. He's not that valuable. As I said, Arizona will be looking to cut money because they're generally not a high profit team (if any profit at all), and they won't wanna go from paying Dvorak $5.075M and $3.450M in the next 2 seasons, to paying Monahan $6.125M and $6M. They just re-signed Lybushkin and with his salary and Dvorak's combined, they can pay 2 players $6.425M instead of paying 1 player $6.125M and then having to find someone to replace Lybushkin.

You can't fairly compare production numbers of Dvorak and Monahan solely based on points alone. You leave out many factors like the player each player played with (Monahan frequently played with Gaudreau and sometimes Lindholm) along with coaching systems, where Arizona has always been a defensive minded team and Calgary was a highly offensive team until Sutter took over.

All this adding up, Arizona still declines.</div></div>

0.7 PPG in the playoffs, Matthews is 0.75 with only two more games played, does that mean Matthews doesn't show up in the playoffs either? Nylander is 0.71 PPG in the playoffs and he's talked about as a playoff performer in Leafs circles now, what's the difference?

Long term you are paying Monahan 12.125 million, a lesser player 19.7 million in real dollars while filling a 1.35 Lybushkin with ELC or less than million dollar players like Kylington or a 2nd round draft pick, both pieces that Arizona gets in this trade.

Arizona gets the best player in the deal, a better long term economic outlook, you're absolutely grasping at straws here to the point that it looks like you'll just argue dead points to feel right, no point in continuing this conversation there is nothing that will come from it, I think you're wrong and you want to feel right, all that needs to be said! Have a great day.
Forum: Armchair-GMJun. 10, 2021 at 3:22 p.m.
Thread: Long Time Listener First Time Caller
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>TrueCanuck</b></div><div>Arizona is looking to cut money to their payroll. Not add overpaid players that don't perform to it while paying almost the same amount.

Yotes decline.</div></div>

Player requiring hip surgery = Player that doesn't perform. Got it.

Last two seasons Monahan under performing has netted him 76 points in 120 games to Dvorak's 69 in 126 games. From 2019 - 2021 Dvorak's contract was at its cheapest in terms of real dollars spent at 3.25 and 3.45 respectively, owing him 19.7 million dollars of a 26.4 million dollar contract over the next 4 years as opposed to paying Monahan 7 million less for 2 and moving on with a D prospect and a draft pick makes economical sense for the Coyotes

Monahan is the best piece in this deal, Dvorak would be the better fit in Calgary. Calgary gets cost certainty and Arizona gets in the top 50 of a draft with wild cards all over it. Lybushkin locks up the right side in Calgary.