Jan 25, 2017
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<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>OldNYIfan</b></div><div>But I think a primarily defensive guy is just what we need alongside Cam Fowler. I'm not saying that Cam is defensively deficient, <strong>I think he's fine there; it's just that Cam has enough offense for the two of them. <strong> </div></div>
Maybe, but I've never been impressed with Cam's offence. His outlet pass is good, but that is on the transition which we all know he is excellent at. Once the team is setup in the O-zone, his lack of a threatening shot and average vision/creativity really shows. I don't think Fowler is bad offensively, but it's just not a strong part of his game. I think he's much better defensively, especially in this new-era of hockey which is faster and where more points are scored on the rush. Admittedly, if I had to choose, I think I would go with someone more defensive as a partner for Fowler, but that pairing is always just going to be lackluster IMO.
Fowler + Weber/Jones would be ideal. Someone who is a little slower in transition, but that brings a booming shot and can make up for Fowler's physical deficiencies. I think in future drafts, we should be going hard after a Weber/Jones-esq D-man, I'd be all over a D-prospect in this years draft if they had someone like a Provorov or Seider.</strong></strong>
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Arlotti47</b></div><div>Ouch. Every time I seem to put Fowler for Domi I get things saying “Fowler is worth that” and **** like that... <strong>pretty sure no one ever agrees on any post on this website</strong></div></div>
I'm sure that you'll never get 100% agreement from every fan. Having said that, I've seen deals where the majority of fans will agree. However, at the end of the day, there are just very few deals capable of meeting the needs of both teams whilst providing fair value. I mean, I can literally think of a handful of deals that would meet that criteria for ANA right now and I'm not sure they would be that well received by the opposing team. So when you come on here and make 20-30 GM posts a week, I'm pretty confident in saying that most of them are going to receive a poor response.
You're welcome to make trade suggestions, but what I will say is that most of them come across as poorly thought through and "trades for trades sake". Undervaluing our guys to get a positive response from opposing fans won't change that.
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>BuckoJoyde</b></div><div><a href="/users/mytduxfan" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">@mytduxfan</a> As somebody thats been accused of undervaluing duck players in the past too I would agree this is too low, but I would infer me and <a href="/users/Arlotti47" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">@Arlotti47</a> will sorta of be in the right come the time they are actually traded(unless a extension is agreed upon, therefore value will be much more significant) ,walk for nothing or maybe sign for to much her in ANA. Nevertheless, this trade will never happen but I get the idea and plus I have a mild suspicion Rakell and Lindholm resigning here on team friendly deals will depend on them both being on the team together. Aren't they like best buds? I know its not the end all be all but I wouldn't be shocked if it were a huge reason they would like to stay in ANA.</div></div>
I will never understand the logic that you should trade any pending UFA because they might walk. It is just a nonsensical thought process and one that isn't backed by the numbers. Provided a team wants to keep a player, they tend to stay with their clubs. If they don't, they've usually expressed a degree of unhappiness or a desire leave prior. I haven't heard Rakell or Lindholm request a trade or complain about the team or its management (except comment about RC). I mean, based on your logic Henrique, Silf and Fowler would have walked. Kesler would have walked. Getz and Perry would have walked.... oh... but they didn't. In fact, the only meaningful player I can remember walking was Perreault. There is more to hockey then money and most player would prefer not uprooting their families and moving to whole new city to make a little extra.
In terms of "overpaying", no one in ANA right now is overpaid. The term of some contracts may be a little longer than I would like, but that's the name of the game. Getzlaf is on the decline, Kesler is on IR, Perry fell off a cliff. Does that mean we shouldn't have signed those guys to those deals and let them walk? **** no. The name of the game is winning the SC and that requires talent and talent costs money. I am not here to have the team who is the best at keeping costs down and having the most prospects. I want my team to win championships. If that means we end up having guys on contracts that take them into their mid-to-late 30s, so be it.
As far as I am aware, Rakell and Lindholm are close, but I don't think they're joined at the hip. If one is moved, I am sure the other will see it for what it is, part of the business. Seriously, some fans on here really treat players like they're irrational 12 year olds who can't be reasoned with.
I very much doubt we'll get to test your theory that you'll "be in the right" when Rakell/Lindholm is trade. If Rakell is traded soon for anything less than a 1st + top prospect, GMBM should be fired. Same is true if Lindholm is traded at all.
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>AFOX10900</b></div><div>Those guys (other than Kane and Ovi) are franchise guys, I would guess most "great first line wingers" are probably elite imo
I agree, I'd rather have elite C's than W's, but we aren't giving up any elite C's here, and most teams win with two 1C capable players, which if we draft Rossi, we'll have... and most teams that do win have an elite winger (Pasta/Marchand, Oviish, Guentzel year 2, Kane x3, Datsyuk in 08 in DET etc)
sadness... and I thought Ritchie was really good (compared to most people)</div></div>
Okay, perhaps your definitions make a little more sense i.e. 1st liner --> elite --> franchise --> generational. I often use "elite" to describe the very best players at their respective positions, but franchise might be better. In that case, I think we need a "franchise" C to become a real competitor and, probably, a franchise D. I'd be interested to here your thoughts on our prospects and their projected outcomes. For me:
Zegras - Elite 1st liner
Steel - mid-6er
Comtois - Elite 1st liner
Lundestrom - mid-6er
Jones - bottom 6er
Tracey - mid-6er
Terry - mid-6er
BOG - bottom 6er
Larsson - bottom pairing
Guhle - bottom pairing/AHLer
Mahura - bottom pairing
Thrun - bottom 4.
LaCombe - top 4D
Andersen - bottom pairing
The other thing I have difficulty with is that most of our guys are playmakers, which makes it very difficult to build a line-up that I'd feel comfortable saying is competitive. Rossi would be a great addition. Again, I'm not sure I see franchise C in him though. However, his scoring touch would be most welcome.
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>AFOX10900</b></div><div>we also don't have any future elite wingers (which TK fixes) and while those players can play wing, that doesn't mean they all will, our forward depth is fine, (Steel 2C, Comtois 2W Terry 2/3W, Lundestrom 3C/W, BOG 2/3C, Heinen/Milano 2/3W, Jones 3W) and all we're really giving up here is depth (by depth I mean anything other than first liners lol)</div></div>
Well maybe that's the problem here because I don't think Konecny is an elite winger. I mean, you're talking about a guy that has a max season point total of 61 pts with only 24 goals. For me, when you're talking about "elite wingers" you're talking about Panarin, Pastrnak, Marchand, Kane, Kucherov (and obviously Ovi)... guys who can produce 40+ goals and/or 90+ pts a season. I don't think Konecny is at that level and likely never will be. He's still a great top line winger, but not elite for me.
In any event, I don't believe we need an elite winger to win a cup. PIT never had an elite winger when they won, neither did LA. What they did have was a deep set of Cs fronted by an elite C. We don't have that yet. Although I believe Zegras is on a trajectory to become a top line C, I don't think he'll be elite. Hence, I think we need to another C. We should also continue to bolster the backend and hopefully find an elite option there too. Elite Cs make the wingers around them better. I'd rather be strong down the middle and compliment those Cs with competent wingers. Comtois could be a 30 goal scorer. If we add Rossi or Raymond this year, that gives us another option. Tracey could end up another top 6 option. We've got Milano, Terry, and could move Steel to the wing. Lots of options, just need to find chemistry. However, the whole premise is based on the idea that you have the top-end C talent.
It is shame that we missed on Ritchie. Can you imagine how we'd be if that was an Ehlers or Nylander!
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>AFOX10900</b></div><div>We have enough quantity at C, Getz-Zegras-Steel-BOG-Rico (in no particular order) in the top 9 over the next few years and we're basically just upgrading Raks to TK</div></div>
Getzlaf is on the decline. Rico can play wing. Steel may not stay at C. We have 1 legit top 6 C option in Zegras lined up for the future. Our C depth is okay, but we're going to get destroyed by LA once their guys come through unless we do something about it (Byfield/Stutzle, Turcotte, Vilardi, Kupari, Thomas). IMO, we need another elite 1C option if we're to be a serious competitors down the line as well as an elite 1D, preferably RH. Perhaps Rossi can be that 1C option. Otherwise, I think we need a couple more high picks before we're ready to go. It's just a shame we don't have any future elite D-men in the system as they tend to take longer to develop.
I am not against moving Rakell, but the difference between Rakell and Konecny isn't Lundestrom + a bunch of picks (Ghost is worth like a 3rd right now).
I don't think its a bad deal in terms of value, I just don't think it makes sense. The whole "chemistry" narrative between Raymond and Holtz doesn't add up when you consider they are both natural RWs, so competing for the same position, and don't play on the same team in the SHL. They literally only play together for Sweden and, even then, they're not on the same line.
Overall, LW just isn't a need for us and I wouldn't want to invest in two RWs like that (like Laine and Connor in WPG right now). As OldNYIfan says, if Drysdale + Raymond + Holtz were available, it might be worth considering as we could address the core weaknesses in our prospect pool in one go. However, I very much doubt Drysdale makes it past DET and OTT. In that case, I think it makes more sense for us to just draft one of Rossi or Raymond and to keep Rakell and Henrique as veteran leaders for the near-future.