Erhm.. those trades are unfair since Nylanders value is significantly higher (with picks too) than Spurgeon, Muzzin, Nurse, Hamonic (also these guys are not wanted). You would need to add higher pick if case for Manson. Ellis is not wanted imo and Pesce trade is only fair one..

Hamonic I can see being unwanted but why would they not like the others

Because they are either LH or small.. we dont want either of that

Because people don’t think before they post... so we sign nylander for 8 years then trade him for 2 years of spurgeon??? Is spurgeon 4 times better than nylander? Term means something and so does the fit. I think in most cases Toronto would be happier to add futures with nylander for something they can use now.

My only complaint regarding Nylander is that they expect some incredible pieces for Nylander and cite his enormous value but also say he isn’t worth more than $6m. That’s what I don’t get

How are these fair? When it comes to trade value, all of our players should be considered to have Auston Matthews value. Because that's how we see it.

A lot of Leafs fans say he’s a $6-$6.5m Level guy not 7.5 or so and at the same time think he should be traded for a someone like H. Lindholm one for one, it just doesn’t add up

This is clearly in response to my post.

Here is a question I'd like answered, but before I pose the question I'd like to make a couple statements.

I'll focus on the Pesce trade here.

Pesce is signed to a good contract that pays him accordingly for what he brings to the table, strong defensive play and average to below average offense.
The 3rd rounder gives you about a 25% chance of getting a player who will make the NHL.

Now the proposed trade is a defensive defenseman making less than 4 million and a 3rd rounder that has a 75% chance of being worthless for a gifted offensive player people are very okay with giving 7 million dollars a year.

So tell me, if these players are even close to even, why is Pesce making less than half what Nylander is presumably worth?

On the flip side, other teams fans say he's worth around 7 but trade him for defensive defenseman worth 4 mill a season and say its fair. If its fair, then why aren't defensive defenseman paid the same as offensive forwards?

Also, ignore us being forced to trade or sign him by December when calculating what you should pay for this Auston Matthews caliber player. That doesn't matter.

Very close to fair deals

nylander is last season had a .75 ppg which is = spooner.....also players like pasta are proving to be = or better and making a lot less than he wants.... leafs fans are only seeing his on ice talent and refusing to see that he wants to be paid like a top 5 rw which he isn't .....

same reason line men, running backs and wide receivers don't get paid like quarterbacks? thats why nylander is the nhl lev bell bc he isn't talented enough to earn that nhl price tag

Its been something that has bothered me as well. Leaf fans on here for the most part say this, "We'll trade Nylander for this defenceman, a 1st rounder and your top prospect, he's worth that much. But I'd prefer to keep him at 6.5 million becauase he definitely isn't worth more than that." Its a paradox for sure. Personally, I want to see Nylander signed and for whatever Dubas can get him at. It'll be a great contract as long as he doesn't get injured.

The biggest frustration for me is how fans will be like "Pesce is worth more than Nylander." But I would wager a huge sum that those same fans will also say that Nylander should get paid way more than Pesce.

He's top 10 though, so he's definitely worth at least 6.5 million, and I think 7.5 will still be a very good deal for him.

All that said, if he's worth that much money, how is he worth a guy that can't conceivable deserve more than 4.5 million which are half of the defenceman that people are trading for Nylander. Pesce isn't an all star, he isn't even anything that special, he's done almost nothing to deserve the praise he's getting. He's a solid defensive defenseman who makes less than 4 million a year and is right handed. No one would pay him 5 million and yet people are saying he's worth Nylander +.

No one has been able to explain how a player who deserves to get paid 6.5 million is worth less than a player who deserves to get paid around 4 million.

I think the consensus is that he isn’t worth more than 7m.... don’t see anyone on that list worth 7m. But I agree there have been some bad trade ideas, going both ways.

That metaphor is very confusing.

Offense is worth more in a contractual sense. And yet people are trying to trade what salary wise is worth less than offense for offense and saying its fair. I am still waiting for an explanation that makes any sense.

Of course, but the question I keep asking and have received zero answers is, if defensive defenseman are so valuable in comparison to Nylander, why do they all make far less than him?

I want an explanation as to why fans will say Pesce is worth more than Nylander and then immediately sign him to more than Pesce is worth.

In my mind, there are only 2 possible answers to the question.

1) Pesce is absolutely not worth Nylander and everyone knows that and they are pushing for the trade because they want to win big on a trade.

2) Pesce is absolutely not worth Nylander and everyone knows this, but many fans are justifying it with flimsy arguments because they want to believe its possible more than they want to live in reality.

I think the biggest issue with an IRL Nylander trade is that, unless a contract is worked out before hand, Nylander's cap hit is uncertain and that matters a lot. Nylander at say 7 million for 8 years is different than 8mil for 5, and he is supposedly asking for Draisaitl money and seems willing to hold out to get it. So if a team views him as worth a 7.5 per year cap hit, but a contract isn't agree on before hand, then they need to treat a trade as Nylander at 7.5 plus a 1 mil cap dump over the length of the deal. It doesn't fully explain some of the proposed trades on here, but until he is signed you aren't dealing Nylander, your deal the right to compensation if he signs somewhere else.

manson, pesce nurse, are fine. - All young, similar control to Nylander. Would be similar trades to the Jones / Johansen trades. Nothing wrong there.

Sprugeon, Muzzin, Homonic and i'll throw tanev in there too because he gets tossed around a lot. All 28+, and shorter control. Even if extended it doesnt make sense to trade Nylander's age 23-29 year old seasons for a dman's age 29 - 35 seasons. Peak age is around 27-28 for dmen, that matters.

Ellis - great player, at peak age for dmen, but will be on the wrong side soon, so 'd still focus on younger dmen than him. He also ha a 6.25 extension that takes him until age 35.

In short, aging curves and control matter.

Nylander may not be even in value for these guys but the fact that nylander is yet to sign and December 1st is coming closer lowers his value a bit. Because of this, these players with 3rd/4th round picks added in on top of these dmen is fair based on what Toronto is looking for.

Well that is just silly. No one is trading for Nylander without a contract in place. Which is why no one has traded for him yet, he wants to be in TO and TO wants to keep him. I highly doubt he sits the whole year, my guess is he signs a 2 year bridge deal around 5.5 mill on or before Dec 1.

How does it lower his value? Is he playing poorly? No

Is he out of shape? By all reports, he's in incredible shape.

Is he declining with age? No he's 22 and hasn't even hit his prime.

His value has not at all dropped, especially because any team that trades for him will want a deal in place with Nylander before pulling the trigger.

He isn't even griping about position or anything like Trouba did, he's just politely asking for more money than TO is currently prepared to pay him. If they hadn't signed Tavares, I bet he would already be signed to an 8 year deal. With Tavares in the fold, the Leafs need to be smarter with their money.

That’s a very fair assessment. But even though Spurgeon, Hamonic, Ellis, Muzzin, and Tanev may be a fair bit older, Toronto has a team that is ready to win now besides their defense so they may still bite on these trades, if not a bit more value could be added with either adding a later pick or moving the current pick up by one round

Another thing to keep in mind is that compensation on a 5 year 8mil per deal is a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd, so the Leafs aren't getting a better offer than that to begin with until he has signed. Doesn't matter what he is compared to another player, it's what that player is worth if traded for draft picks.