Philly will do Gudas for Zaitsev and a 2nd. (Although if I'm GM I would want Kapanen and Zaitsev for Gudas, Simmonds, Strome and Myers)

Sure, that’s my point. If they are going to get usable value out of NZ they will have to pay. Philly is another team with some cap space that would be a good trading partner.

I’m just tired of the Zaitsev + bottom roster or lesser prospect to the Canes for Pesce crap that’s been on here.

A trade I’ve kicked around is Zaitsev and Nylander to New Jersey for Wood and Vatanen

Let's make a big splash: trade Ristolainen and Larsson for Kadri and Zaitsev

Buffalo gets it #2 center and TML get their top RHD

Why would they have to pay to move him? He's RHD which are the rage right now, plays 20+ minutes a game. Is a good penalty killer and responsible in his own end. His only misfortune is he makes about a million more than he should for how he plays within the TO system. That being said, he isn't without value. He isn't Seabrook who can barely play 5v5 minutes and makes 7 million a season for several more years when he is already declining massively.

This whole, Zaitsev is going to cost the Leafs a lot to move is just bitter fans wanting to see the Leafs burn. The far more likely scenario is, they will lose him for essentially nothing. I'd wager there would more than a few teams who would be interested in Zaitsev if all it cost was a 5th round pick to acquire him. That is the line you should be using, its the same thing with Brown where people say he's a cap dump. Sure the Leafs are moving on from him but not in a traditional cap dump sense. Its not like Bolland to Arizona, where everyone knows the player won't ever see playing time but was picked up for the other asset coming over.

Whatever it ends up being, the point is that Leafs fans can not expect to just move Zaitsev and get value. Going to have to pay in terms of picks prospect or other valuable roster players in a bigger package.

Here comes @LoganOllivier ...

Can you not agree that every GM in the league can see that Zaitsev is the major roadblock contract preventing the Leafs from signing all of their young talent? Regardless of the talent, does that not depress value?

what about the trade I posted above Ristolainen and Larsson for Kadri and Zaitsev?

Which is why I say he may be lost for nothing. If his actual value should be a 2nd round pick, and lets be honest, much worse players have earned bigger returns, then the Leafs may have to settle for a 4th or 5th which is almost a straight give away. Sure the Leafs have a challenging cap situation, but that doesn't mean players have no value, that is just you wanting to see the Leafs burn. This is the same as when people say, "With the Leafs cap situation they will have to trade Nylander + for Pesce because cap hell and also it greatly helps my team. Its a huge exaggeration. Just dial it back 50-70%.

I am not at all a fan of Ristolainen, he's statistically speaking, the worst defenceman in the entire league at 5v5. At least he was the past 2 seasons before this, just slightly worse than Justin Faulk. Those two players have the worst SV% when they are on the ice. Kadri is too valuable to move, his contract is amazing and he's really coming on right now. Zaitsev isn't a bad player so its just not a move that really works for me.

I am more of a minor move kid of person.

Think we are saying very close to the same thing. Take a look out there for some of the Leafs fans trades. Sending Zaitsev for Prospect + 2nd round picks or trading him to the Hurricanes is just unrealistic expectations.

I saw that trade on a different post and while I agree with you, Sabre fans all thought Buffalo was giving up too much. IMO Zaitsev <= Ristolainen, but that is just me a Sabre's fan.

Sure, lots of people post ridiculous stuff on here. So with that in mind, I'll ask this. If a fan posts something that you feel is really unfavourable, does it help the discussion to jump to the other extreme (I understand this isn't that extreme)?

Zaitsev is a good player, he wouldn't be playing as many minutes or doing as well as he at times if he wasn't talented. As an avid Leafs fan I do watch him a lot and what I see more than anything is that he's boosting the actual weak link on the Leafs Blueline. Gardiner constantly hangs him out to dry. When Gardiner was out a couple weeks ago, Zaitsev played with Dermott and it was like he was a different player. He needs a more responsible partner to let his skills work to a greater advantage. This is also why I am not eager to trade Zaitsev, I think better usage next season when Gardiner is gone will go a long way to helping things.

Ristolainen is a worse version of Gardiner. He scores a lot on the PP but he's a dumpster fire in his own zone and super soft as well.

I’ve posted on every Zaitsev post that I can, and my point has been fit mostly. Above anything else, the team Zaitsev is least likely to go to is the Canes, but the Canes have been the most quoted team on here.

I’ll accept the fact that Zaitsev might be better than his number appear, and will also accept the fact he’s not getting a lot of help. However, my issue is contract...more specifically term/length. That’s the roadblock in my eyes. Going back to the Canes example...why would the Canes send anything of value in return for another RHD under contract ($4.5M) for 6 years. Just doesn’t make sense.

Look at the comments from the Sabre fans:

https://www.capfriendly.com/armchair-gm/team/1030168

IMO Zaitsev <= Ristolainen and Kadri >>> Larsson, but that is not what Sabre fans think, and many people complain about Leaf fan over valuing their players.

I don't see a good trade partner in Carolina, unless they get desperate to upgrade their forwards in the off season. And I agree I don't see Zaitsev as someone Carolina would have any appetite for, unless again they are desperate and that could be the case this off season if they miss the playoffs again. They need a lot of scoring help and TO does offer a lot of forward help. Unfortunately for Carolina, they are in a position of weakness on making any trade. They are in danger of missing the playoffs for the 10th straight year and their biggest issue is scoring. TO on the other hand could use another defenceman but they are also one of the better teams in the NHL this season and have wants instead of needs. Which means TO can say "no thanks" unless its something they really like.

So with all that in mind, I agree Zaitsev won't go to Carolina (stranger things have happened but I highly doubt it), but he also won't be traded in a deal where the Leafs send a top prospect and a pick with him to get him off the books, that is just silly. If he gets traded, it'll be for a 4th round pick or something.

This. It's pretty much spot on, IMO. Put Dert with Z and Gards with Hainsey and watch the narrative change... plus, Gards and Haisney worked well together last year when Mo was out. I don't know how Babs misses this?? Dert and Z this year = good. Gards and Hainsey last year = good. So, that must mean that Dert/Hainsey and Gards/Z is the right answer???

I don't think people are saying Zaitsev is a right off or a bad player, I think the consensus is that he is overpaid by a million or 1.5million. And not just for this year, for the next 5-6 years. He has value but its not nearly as high because of his production and size and length of contract. Trading for a Gudas for example, saves only 800K (which is a lot for the Leafs) for this year and next, but then its off the books, thats key. There are teams who could take that contract, (Philly being a good example), but really on most teams hes not playing 20 minutes a night and is a 4mil a year 5th-6th dman, probably not a top 4 dman. But he has value, its just not as high because of his contract length.

When talking about a team that is dealing from a position of weakness, that is what most people are referring to when saying Zaitsev will not net anything. Toronto is unfortunately dealing from a position of weakness because they have major cap issues next year, and if they don't plan to give up a player who has positive value (i.e one of their top forwards whose contract length and term reflects the players skills) then they will be forced to move a negative value (a player whose contract length and/or term is worse than the net positive they contribute on the ice). I think everyone would agree that Zaitsev at 2.5 million on same term is a good deal and teams would need to give up some good assets. On top of the fact Zaitsev's contract is considered high, and too long, because Toronto is in a position of weakness because of next year's cap issues, team's know that and will hold out for extra. When you take into account all these things, most people realistically feel that to get rid of him Toronto will need to give up something in order to make cap space. And there are no options for this. Toronto MUST be cap compliant for next year, so unlike Carolina who can say no to a deal if it does not favour them, even if it means not getting the scoring they need, Toronto MUST give up something to become cap compliant. And that is a great example of dealing from a position of weakness.

The Leafs have a challenging cap situation next season, not an impossible one. Their situation isn't even the worst in their own division. The notion that they are going to be entering cap hell is pretty misguided and its fueled by media speculation and fan mania.

Here are some facts, they have a lot of cap space still next season but most of it will get eaten up by Marner, leaving a smaller amount for depth guys like Johnsson, Kapanen, a defenceman etc. But being in cap hell happens when you have star players that you can't afford. Look at Winnipeg or Tampa next year and then you'll see Cap hell. Winnipeg has something like 15 million in space available next season and have Trouba, Laine and Connor as RFA's, they are going to have to move some important pieces to be able to afford those guys, or they will have to trade someone like Laine to open up space. The Leafs don't have to do that, they have 2 guys on their roster who will be attractive to other teams, and can be replaced relatively cheaply. Brown for example, would be an upgrade over many wingers on some teams like Edmonton. So the Leafs can move him and clear up about a million or 1.5. Need another couple million, someone can and will take Zaitsev at full price and get him for a steal. There are many teams who could use a Right handed defenceman who can play 22 minutes a night and be responsible in his own zone. Sure his contract is a little high, (3-3.5) is a much better range but even 4.5 isn't terrible.

Carolina though is a team that is in a position of weakness, they have missed the playoffs for 9 seasons in a row and its clear they need more offense. They have a good d core but because they are in a position where they have NEEDS and not WANTS, they have to overpay out of necessity. Toronto has been in the top 10 defensively for most of the season and have the 3rd best goal differential in hockey (At last look), that means getting a defenceman (Already added Muzzin) at this point is a want not a need. So with that in mind, TO can easily pass on trades they find too pricey, while Carolina would/should be more willing to push the envelope due to their situation.

Interesting spin on Toronto's cap position. If Carolina has missed the play offs for the last 9 seasons, not sure why this year they must all of a sudden "overpay" to get a scoring forward. They could instead go the route of Toronto a few years ago, continue to grow their own players, wait for deals that work for them, last I looked as well Carolina is 1 point out of wild card position and playing well. If making the play offs is the perceived need, they are not that far off with their current line up.
Now for Toronto, what if every trade proposed by the leafs get a no from the other GM's? Who knows if it will happen or not, but let's for a moment say it does. Nothing TO proposes to other teams is accepted, Going into next year that still leaves some options. You don't sign Marner. As you said that allows cap space for everyone else but you lose Marner. I am guessing most people would say that is not an option. You could low ball him. Also an option, likely not one that the team will do, why piss off one of your best players? So you sign him and eat up most of the cap. At that point, doesn't matter how you cut it, you need to get rid of players with more than minimum salary in order to become cap compliant. And when I say need, you need to. Not an option. Not the ability to sit back and say, I reject that offer. At some point, if teams don't accept any trades that Toronto deem good, Toronto will need to give up more in a trade then they would have if cap had not been an issue. This is not some media driven fantasy and media speculation, this is reality. Misguided speculation is thinking another team is going to take a poor contract off Toronto's hands and not be adequately compensated for it. And although I agree Zaitsev is not a terrible hockey player, and brings value on the ice, it is more than offset by a bad contract, and further worsened by Toronto's cap crunch. (I agree not cap hell as this would suggest multiple years of issues, but next year is going to be some serious problems).

LoganO you are right, Zaitsev was better, more confident on the puck and more effective paired with Dermott
I feel Leafs should move Gardiner as a rental, due to next year's cap issues