Sens don't want Smith, and alex Fortin isn't worth wasting a contract slot on.

Okay, but Smith and a sweetener can go lots of places, the gist of the AGM was the montreal trade.

I don't think MTL would trade KK before having a good idea what he is.

Maybe or maybe not. Clearly Strome is an upgrade at this point, depends where MTL is; win now or next year...if so Strome makes a lot of sense. I think the Hawks with the emergence of Dach and Strome have 2 very similar centers and one is expendable for a faster more dynamic center versus a big net front power center.

I only care about the Senators who play in Ottawa, Canada.

Also I doubt MTL does that. I think they have faith that JK can be an impactful centre offensively, and he can do that while being a reliable 200ft player, which is something Strome doesn't bring imo

I still need to see more of Dlyan Strome before I'll be convinced that he's the real deal.

Strome isn't bad defensively and plays more a power forward net front presence but the Hawks now have that with Dach and what they need is more of dynamic center. Kotkaniemi is more dynamic...not sure I'd call him a 200ft player but definitely decent on the forecheck.

What we need is Strome is a impact player, JK is still trying to bring it together. Is a bird in hand worth it? Depends where MTL thinks they are this season or next competitively.

It's not impossible, just very hasty for a guy who was one of the youngest players in his draft year. His slow start is mostly because he put on too much weight, too fast (he gained about 15 lbs this summer). He just needs to acclimatize to his new weight.

It's not like they absolutely need him to be a superstar this season either. Habs offense is doing well and Danault & Domi are doing fine as the top 2 centermen. No need to sacrifice potential and team control for a 3rd line c upgrade (position on team, not talent wise).

MTL are trying to win now for the next 10 years, they wont trade their future 1C for a gambling in Strome

LMAO every team is trying to win for the next 10 years. Put this in perspective, Strome played better then Danault last year and this year so far....Kotkaniemi has a lot of work to do in order to be a 1C, I think realistically he's going to be a 2C, which is fine for the Hawks and not so fine if MTL is counting on him as the 1C answer. Comparatively, I don't think many would argue Dach has more upside then Kotkaniemi just to put into perspective.

Lol Kotkaniemi played a full season at 18 yo, record 34 points, MTL just finished a rebuilt, they won’t trade KK Caufield Romanov that’s it

I think a clear upgrade is a stretch. One is 19 and in his second year but has shown a lot of talent while Strome is what 23 now and still hasn't shown much beyond a good stretch last year.

Actually, Strome is 22. He is on pace for 58 points this season after 17 games including a bad stretch of games for all the Hawks forwards. Last season with the Hawks he had 51 points in 58 games, a pace of 72 points. 68 games is more then "a good stretch" at the age of 22.

KK will not be traded. Kids 19 years old. He was solid as a young 18 year old (people forget he was the youngest player in the NHL last year). This year has had some growing pains but nothing worth getting anyones panties in a fuss.

Habs trading KK now would be like the Hawks trading Dach. It simply doesn't make sense right now. This idea of maybe trying to go for it now is not something teams do. KK is cost controlled for longer and poised to be just as good as Strome is now, in 3 years time. Trading KK for Strome would be one of those rash decisions that would leave a bad taste in peoples mouths. Nothing to do with Strome not being as good or anything like that, he is a solid player. Its just we already have a solid player in KK so why not just be patient with the player we drafted 3rd overall just two years ago.

Habs are grooming KK to be a Kopitar/Barkov type player. Kopitar was a freak of nature producing big numbers at 19 so that's a hard comparison but Barkov and Kotkaniemi are on pretty darn similar learning curves. Barkov wasn't doing anything special until his 3rd year in the NHL. KK still has time before anyone should start thinking of trading him. (Not saying Kotkaniemi = Barkov just that they have similar paths thus far)

I still think without Kane or Debrincat he's a middling forward. His skating is too much of a question mark for me.

Okay, this second quoted statement is exactly what I was looking for. ChiHawk, hate to say it buddy, but we’re stuck, at least for the foreseeable future, with a very slow center core. Strome and dach literally drive me up a wall with their god awful skating, and that much is honestly enough for me to believe that strome wouldn’t fetch exactly what we’d want in a trade. I don’t care what anyone tells me, foot speed these days, as much as physicality has its defenders, will always be premium.

I’d say if we want to not be stuck with two centers who are exactly the same, trade dach, cuz people may actually want him and pay a decent price for him. Before anyone makes the statement I know is coming, yes, I know that will never happen. Jesus I want that kid to get faster though. For Christ sake.

You're stretching to say Dach and Strome are "very slow". They aren't that slow Hatter. They both are not speed demons by any means, but they are average of all NHL players (including defenders) slightly below average for centers. However, my concern is having 2 centers that are the future 1C and 2C both being slightly below average in speed focused on playing a power forward, net front type of game, is the bigger problem I see as it's not a balanced approach. If we had one dynamic speedy center and 1 Dach/Strome like center to me that is good balance and good 1C/2C combination to create a matchup nightmare for the opposing team. Let keep in mind that Toews is slowing down as father time catches up and turning into a very similar player to Dach and Strome also...so we have 3 centers playing the same game for the foreseeable future.

As such, if picking between Strome and Dach, although Strome is no doubt the better player today, Dach has better upside as he exhibits a better shot and better hands with all else being equal, albeit it's close. This is why I've been preaching for a year now that Turcotte should be and should've been the right pick and not Dach. Now being stuck with the same players in Dach and Strome, I feel the team needs to consider moving Strome for a different type of center or acquiring assets to get that more dynamic speedy center.

My logic is predicated on the best teams don't play a one dimensional game in the NHL, the best teams have a balanced approach with speed, grit, physicality, defense, offense, etc. Toronto is a perfect example of a one dimensional team, all dynamic offensive players (even on defense) but not enough defense, physicality and grit. Trying to outscore an opponent while suffering on the defensive side of the puck, what the Hawks are starting to do lately and did at the end of last season, doesn't work in playoff hockey...it's fun to watch as a fan and can work in the regular season as Toronto has proven but won't get you far in the post season.

I was really hoping to see a center depth in a few years of Turcotte, Strome and Toews in that order as Toews will further age and become a 3C. Instead we are looking at Dach, Strome, Toews...all play a very similar game. Bowman for that reason, doesn't get it IMO. We aren't big and physical on the wings with the exception of Saad and Shaw, and we only have a couple speed wingers. It's an identity crisis. In a perfect world you would think we would have a big physical line and a speedy dynamic line as a our front 6 swapping them the lines as a 1A and 1B based on a matchups against the opponents. That IMO is how you build balance. Cat - Strome - Kane works to a degree but the line is clearly held back at times by Strome's lack of speed...very noticeable in odd man rushes. In the same way Saad - Toews - Nylander is held back by Nylander not being physical enough or defensive enough. There's the theory of mix and match having a dynamic player, net front guy, and physical guy on each line but in that same logic, then you would expect our centers would be a combination of different types of centers not the same type.

The counter argument to that is our centers are going to be consistent and wingers will be shifted around a lot to create different matchups and since the centers are relatively similar, the wingers can adjust more easily. If that's Bowman's logic I get it but don't necessarily subscribe to it.

Sorry for the rant...

Thank you and don't disagree...it's a sound logical approach and makes sense what you're saying.

However, although I do think Kotkaniemi will be a very solid player, I think his ceiling is more around a top 30 to 50 center in the league, not a top 15 center in the league; which btw is still very solid and worth a 1st round pick all day, but debatable as to a #3 OA pick. As many fans and experts were also, I was shocked he was a #3 pick in the 2018 draft, that to me was a big stretch by MTL. I had pegged in the top 10 but towards a #8 pick not a #3, which supports where I believe his ceiling was predraft and where I still think his ceiling is today after watching him play in the NHL. Let's also be honest, MTL doesn't have great center depth which is also a reason he was forced into the lineup at such a young age. Coupled with the huge expectations of a #3 pick, at his age, he did a very admirable job last year in the NHL.

Back to Strome vs. Kotkaniemi comparison it's basically like this; Strome is 22, is the better player today, still has a fair amount of upside (he is/will be a top 50 center but not more then that IMO) but we have a very good gauge on value Strome. KK has more upside then Strome but the risk is greater as it's hard to say whether he reaches his potential. If KK doesn't develop the way MTL thinks and becomes a career 3C in the league then the Strome trade is a good one. If KK develops into his ceiling of a top 30 center in the league then a trade for Strome is a bad one.

Just for the record, I do agree with everything you’ve said. You and me are definitely on the same level when it comes to what we wish this team would have pushed for and what they’ve chosen instead.

I believe, unfortunately, that strome can’t be traded for any really good, fast, top six center. Strome, to me, still has way too much to prove. In all honesty, centers are suppose to be the focal point and QB of his line. Sadly, I don’t think strome is dynamic enough to do this. In essence, he depends too much on his wingers to drive the flow of play. As a result, I don’t know if any team will be okay with his average speed and dependability on the others around him.

To your point on strome vs KK, I’ll use that in my opinion on Dach. As you said, KK could be a top 30 to 50 center in the league. As with dach, it’s way too early to tell, but with KK I feel like it’s easier to see what Montreal saw in him. He’s still young, but he has more dynamic capability to his play. Dach, in no way, shape or form, has a dynamic edge to his game. Yes his speed may be “average,” but I do believe it’s below average. Having said that, I too have no idea what the identity of the team is anymore. What is this team trying to be? Are they actually going to keep both Dach and strome? Dach doesn’t appear to ever be more than a 2C or top 25 center in the league and strome may be a little worse off.

You are 100% correct on turcotte. He would have added an absolutely new element to this team. I actually see him as a left handed MacKinnon. Bowman panicked for his job and went with the easy pick. Either way, we are stuck with what we got. We will definitely need some more speed in the future though, either through another high pick in the next draft or otherwise. But I don’t what they’re shooting for anymore. You trade for strome, yet you pick Dach. You don’t pick byram, yet you trade jokiharju. You need to patch the defense, yet you get nylander for your best d prospect. I’m lost. I could care less if we’re losing, really, I don’t mind. But with that must be a long term plan. I saw one before this offseason, but now I don’t know.

What do you ChiHawk? What’s the plan? How bout everyone else? Does Stan actually have a plan? Or is this a team with a lack of identity bordering on crisis? Even more important, is this a case where Colliton has to keep letting the team play run n gun? Or do we need a new coach, new GM, clean house????

Well I do think Dach is incredibly gifted with his hands, passing, shot is good and positioning. His physicality is really good for such a young kid. I definitely see him as a top 30 center in this league in the future. For comparison sake, I see KK as a top 30 to 50 center in the league. I think Dach without question is a better bet on who will be better. However, I they aren't that far off in ceiling and because they play a very different style a 1a/1b combination of those two is much more attractive then two similar players in Dach and Strome.

I don't think Bowman has a freaking clue. I think he's going for quick fixes based on immediate need and not very strategic or cerebral in his approach. This isn't a sprint it's a marathon and don't think Bowman sees it that way. As far as the Hawks talking about how they use analytics and are a thought leader in that way in the NHL is complete BS IMO. They shoot from the hip. A perfect example is trading Kahun for Maatta or Nylander for Jokiharju. Even Schmaltz for Strome is not thinking long term...I guess Perlini was what made it interesting but that didn't end up well. Schmaltz is breaking out in Phoenix now and again a combination of Schmaltz and Dach as the future top line centers would have been great.

All that said, the part we as fans don't see is the personalities of the players and coaches behind closed doors. We don't truly know those dynamics and they aren't to be ignored so while things look clear on the surface, often times they aren't clear behind closed doors. Such as the Jokiharju trade, but have read that Jokiharju was having trouble with the coaches and when it was requested he stay in Chicago to train this summer he took off to Finland against coaches and the team recommendation. Something like that is often times not known. The issue with Bowman is on paper there are just too many bad moves so hard to chalk it all up to behind closed door dynamics or politics.