Not sure why people think its a bad return

Forums/Armchair-GM

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Created by: shmoeman

Team: 2019-20 Arizona Coyotes

Initial Creation Date: Dec. 16, 2019

Published: Dec. 16, 2019

Salary Cap Mode: Basic

Description

So I have no idea why some people think this is a bad return.
Mark Stone got dealt for a big time prospect in Brannstrom and a 2nd. This also came with a verbal agreement to an extension which Stone later signed
IMO Stone is better than Hall but Hall has far more games to make an impact in the desert

Hall got a guaranteed 1st along with a 3rd that moves up to a 2nd if the Yotes win a round or Hall resigns, and bumps to a 1st if both happen

Devils also got a slew of solid prospects. Merkley hasnt lived up to his 1st round status but the potential is still there. Schnarr is another prospect that lit up the OHL last year whos got solid potential. Finally theres Kevin Bahl, who I think is the biggest piece that people have slept on in this deal. Hes a BIG twoway dman with top 4 potential written all over him. Plays LHD too which the Devils need desperately

Ive seen a bunch of people say "well this team wouldve offered this" or whatever but clearly there was a price that teams were willing to pay and many offers didnt touch this deal.
VERY solid haul for a UFA to be who is underpreforming rn

Buyouts

Mike Ribeiro: $1,944,444

Draft	Round 1	Round 2	Round 3	Round 4	Round 5	Round 6	Round 7
2020
2021
2022

ROSTER

LONG-TERM OUTLOOK

EMBED

TEXT-EMBED

ROSTER SIZE	SALARY CAP	CAP HIT	OVERAGES	BONUSES	CAP SPACE
22	$81,500,000	$78,056,901	$0	$1,062,500	$3,443,099

Left Wing	Centre	Right Wing
Hall, Taylor $3,000,000$3,000,000 LW UFA - 1	Stepan, Derek $6,500,000$6,500,000 C, RW UFA - 2	Kessel, Phil $6,800,000$6,800,000 RW M-NTC, NMC UFA - 3
Dvorak, Christian $4,450,000$4,450,000 C UFA - 6	Schmaltz, Nick $5,850,000$5,850,000 RW, C UFA - 7	Keller, Clayton $885,833$885,833 ($850,000$850K) LW, RW UFA - 1
Crouse, Lawson $1,533,333$1,533,333 LW, RW UFA - 3	Söderberg, Carl $4,750,000$4,750,000 C, LW M-NTC UFA - 1	Hinostroza, Vinnie $1,500,000$1,500,000 RW, LW UFA - 1
Grabner, Michael $3,350,000$3,350,000 LW, RW M-NTC UFA - 2		Garland, Conor $775,000$775,000 RW, LW UFA - 2
	Richardson, Brad $1,250,000$1,250,000 C M-NTC UFA - 1

Left Defense	Right Defense	Goaltender
Ekman-Larsson, Oliver $7,260,000$7,260,000 LD NMC UFA - 8	Hjalmarsson, Niklas $5,000,000$5,000,000 LD/RD NMC UFA - 2	Kuemper, Darcy $1,850,000$1,850,000 G UFA - 1
Chychrun, Jakob $4,600,000$4,600,000 LD/RD UFA - 6	Goligoski, Alex $5,475,000$5,475,000 LD/RD M-NTC UFA - 2	Raanta, Antti $4,250,000$4,250,000 G UFA - 2
Oesterle, Jordan $1,400,000$1,400,000 LD/RD UFA - 2	Demers, Jason $3,937,500$3,937,500 RD M-NTC UFA - 2

Scratches	Injured Reserve (IR)	Long Term IR (LTIR)
Lyubushkin, Ilya $874,125$874,125 RD UFA - 1		Hossa, Marián $5,275,000$5,275,000 RW NMC UFA - 2
Fischer, Christian $821,666$821,666 ($212,500$212K) RW, LW UFA - 1

Dec. 16, 2019 at 5:08 p.m.

Bcarlo25

Joined: May 2018

Posts: 21,231

Likes: 7,011

Does anyone think this is a bad return? Does a single human being think this is a bad return? This is the biggest fleecing of the decade. The devils robbed arizona blind.

arab05 liked this.

Dec. 16, 2019 at 5:10 p.m.

shmoeman

Thread Starter

Joined: Jan. 2019

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Likes: 930

Quoting: Bcarlo25

Does anyone think this is a bad return? Does a single human being think this is a bad return? This is the biggest fleecing of the decade. The devils robbed arizona blind.

All over twitter, specifically the Devils feed. And on here, people are saying they'd rather have Larsson than this haul lol

ThatGuy and OldNYIfan liked this.

Dec. 16, 2019 at 5:12 p.m.

ThatGuy

Sports and Tacos

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Quoting: Bcarlo25

Does anyone think this is a bad return? Does a single human being think this is a bad return? This is the biggest fleecing of the decade. The devils robbed arizona blind.

Meh, I am underwhelmed by the return for Hall.

I think they could have gotten more!

Dec. 16, 2019 at 5:12 p.m.

Bcarlo25

Joined: May 2018

Posts: 21,231

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Quoting: shmoeman

All over twitter, specifically the Devils feed. And on here, people are saying they'd rather have Larsson than this haul lol

Chayka should already be fired. People on twitter are stupid

Dec. 16, 2019 at 5:13 p.m.

TradeBait2019

Joined: May 2018

Posts: 64

Likes: 21

Quoting: Bcarlo25

Does anyone think this is a bad return? Does a single human being think this is a bad return? This is the biggest fleecing of the decade. The devils robbed arizona blind.

The fact that they didn't have to give up one of their top prospects is good for Arizona. NJ made up for this by getting 3 decent prospects instead of 1 top one (quantity over quality).

IMO its a good trade for both. Arizona keeps their top prospects in Howden and Soderstrom and gets an elite winger to help them win now, while NJ gets some quality pieces for the future.

BlastnyFromThePastny, OldNYIfan, shmoeman and 1 other person liked this.

Dec. 16, 2019 at 5:13 p.m.

exo2769

Joined: Jul. 2015

Posts: 15,683

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Yeah, I'm actually in agreement with you guys. I think The devils did a decent job here. Winning 1 playoff round is something, but it's not like they need to make it to the finals. A guaranteed 1st and a really solid chance for another 1st while picking up Bahl who's a decent 2nd round prospect. That's not bad at all. It's not like he was signing there anyway. OR if he does take the 1st, Bahl, and whatever pick you end up with.

OldNYIfan liked this.

Dec. 16, 2019 at 5:13 p.m.

Bcarlo25

Joined: May 2018

Posts: 21,231

Likes: 7,011

Quoting: ThatGuy

Meh, I am underwhelmed by the return for Hall.

I think they could have gotten more!

Literally how do you have this opinion? Mark Stone is clearly the better player and got a good prospect and a 2nd. This could be two first and three really good prospects.

leafs101 liked this.

Dec. 16, 2019 at 5:15 p.m.

Bcarlo25

Joined: May 2018

Posts: 21,231

Likes: 7,011

Quoting: TradeBait2019

Bahl and what’s his face, that big center in the OHL are both really really good.

Dec. 16, 2019 at 5:16 p.m.

BlastnyFromThePastny

GloryDaysAreBack

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Quoting: Bcarlo25

This is the biggest fleecing of the decade.

Is that my cue to bring up the Duchene trade? I will bring it up whenever I can. Still this is a massive overhaul of New Jersey's prospect cupboard. If Hall re-signs and they Coyotes make it to the conference semis that's 2 first rounders+ these prospects. It's a good hit for New Jersey. Even though Arizona paid a lot. They've been drafting and being conservative with picks forever. I think it's about time they shelled out for some premium talent.

OldNYIfan liked this.

Dec. 16, 2019 at 5:16 p.m.

#10

ThatGuy

Sports and Tacos

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Quoting: Bcarlo25

Literally how do you have this opinion? Mark Stone is clearly the better player and got a good prospect and a 2nd. This could be two first and three really good prospects.

Let's be honest, they only got one real prospect in Ball - who I personally think is slightly overrated.

Dec. 16, 2019 at 5:17 p.m.

#11

Bcarlo25

Joined: May 2018

Posts: 21,231

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Quoting: ThatGuy

Let's be honest, they only got one real prospect in Ball - who I personally think is slightly overrated.

No.

Dec. 16, 2019 at 5:18 p.m.

#12

ThatGuy

Sports and Tacos

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Quoting: BlastnyFromThePastny

Is that my cue to bring up the Duchene trade? I will bring it up whenever I can.

PLease don't bring that up.

Dec. 16, 2019 at 5:18 p.m.

#13

OldNYIfan

Once a Kings Fan Too

Joined: Jun. 2018

Posts: 40,499

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Quoting: Bcarlo25

Does anyone think this is a bad return? Does a single human being think this is a bad return? This is the biggest fleecing of the decade. The devils robbed arizona blind.

Check the Forums.

Dec. 16, 2019 at 5:19 p.m.

#14

Bcarlo25

Joined: May 2018

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Quoting: BlastnyFromThePastny

I see what you’re saying there, but that trade wound up being so lopsided because of a somewhat surprising fall from Ottawa. This is just very very clearly bad from the second the trade call was made.

Dec. 16, 2019 at 5:20 p.m.

#15

shmoeman

Thread Starter

Joined: Jan. 2019

Posts: 2,441

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Quoting: Bcarlo25

Chayka should already be fired. People on twitter are stupid

Ehh dont really know where thats coming from. Coyotes already have a young team, most are already locked up to fair contracts as well. The fact that they didnt give up Hayton or Soderstrom is big. The west is pretty weak outside of STL and Colorado so I think this is the perfect time to capitalize. Yotes are done being mediocre and did what CBJ wanted to do in a better way. This is a VERY good team

Dec. 16, 2019 at 5:23 p.m.

#16

OldNYIfan

Once a Kings Fan Too

Joined: Jun. 2018

Posts: 40,499

Likes: 25,389

If Hall doesn't re-sign in Arizona, then New Jersey made out like bandits.

And if Hall does re-sign in Arizona, and the Coyotes win one playoff round in May, then the Devils made out like bandits who got away with it.

Bcarlo25 liked this.

Dec. 16, 2019 at 5:23 p.m.

#17

Bcarlo25

Joined: May 2018

Posts: 21,231

Likes: 7,011

Quoting: shmoeman

How did that work out for columbus?

Dec. 16, 2019 at 5:24 p.m.

#18

shmoeman

Thread Starter

Joined: Jan. 2019

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Quoting: Bcarlo25

Literally how do you have this opinion? Mark Stone is clearly the better player and got a good prospect and a 2nd. This could be two first and three really good prospects.

Three really good prospects is a bit of an overstatement. I think Bahl is really solid, Merkley is decent as well as Schnarr.
Comparing this to the Bs farm system Id say its Lauzon, Frederic and maybe Andersson. All solid that can certainly make it to the NHL, but none will end up being top line/ top pairing guys. Just adds a lot of organizational depth and competition within the system

Dec. 16, 2019 at 5:25 p.m.

#19

shmoeman

Thread Starter

Joined: Jan. 2019

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Quoting: Bcarlo25

How did that work out for columbus?

Thats why I said Arizona did what Columbus did in a better way...

Dec. 16, 2019 at 5:27 p.m.

#20

Bcarlo25

Joined: May 2018

Posts: 21,231

Likes: 7,011

Quoting: shmoeman

Thats why I said Arizona did what Columbus did in a better way...

It will get the same result. No hardware, a guy walking in free agency, and a huge hit to the organizational depth.

Dec. 16, 2019 at 5:29 p.m.

#21

Bcarlo25

Joined: May 2018

Posts: 21,231

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Quoting: shmoeman

I think I’d probably trade those three prospects just for Bahl. Schnarr is very good in my opinion.

Dec. 16, 2019 at 5:31 p.m.

#22

Hawksince71

Joined: Jul. 2019

Posts: 640

Likes: 162

Quoting: Bcarlo25

Does anyone think this is a bad return? Does a single human being think this is a bad return? This is the biggest fleecing of the decade. The devils robbed arizona blind.

Impossible to say how good this deal will be for New Jersey. They got a lot back. Those players and draft picks can be move sometime in the future if doesn’t fit. But say this was bad for the Devils is crazy.

On the other side, Hall & Kessler on the power play. Could be dangerous. It appears Arizona is going all in. Can they win their current goaltending? Or will another deal happen?

Dec. 16, 2019 at 5:34 p.m.

#23

Bcarlo25

Joined: May 2018

Posts: 21,231

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Quoting: Hawksince71

Well i hope that the yotes don’t wind up with Kessler, that would be tough.

I don’t think it’s impossible to say how good of a deal this is for the devils. You can judge the value now better than you can years down the road. They got fantastic value for a few months of a sub point per game player that’s being marketed as the best thing since Gretzky.

Dec. 16, 2019 at 5:36 p.m.

#24

BlastnyFromThePastny

GloryDaysAreBack

Joined: Apr. 2018

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Quoting: shmoeman

I mean after drafting Hughes and Hischier I am betting they could use some young guys who can develop into strong middle line depth.

Dec. 16, 2019 at 5:59 p.m.

#25

SalamiCheese

Joined: Jul. 2018

Posts: 4,928

Likes: 2,670

Bahl - solid prospect, but OEL and Chychrun in top 4 and Capobianco will be able to fill a place in the third pair
Merkley - not in top 10 prospects Arizona at the moment
Schnarr - not in top 10 prospects Arizona at the moment
2020 1st - good, but maybe this is late first
2021 1st - too many conditions and it is not yet clear whether they will be fulfilled

This is a completely normal deal for both teams that solve different problems this season.

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