Why Cant Leafs Fans Accept This

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Created by: OldNYIfan

Team: 2019-20 Toronto Maple Leafs

Initial Creation Date: Jan. 26, 2020

Published: Jan. 26, 2020

Salary Cap Mode: Basic

Description

This is fair value for Josh Manson.

Manson is our number one RhD. On most teams, and almost all good ones, he isn't a number one, but that's all we've got, so he has value to us. Therefore, we won't move him unless we get a replacement back. Hence the inclusion of Timothy Liljegren in the deal.

Manson is valuable to you now and may even help you get back into the playoffs this year. Liljegren is of no value to us this year and probably won't help get us back into the playoffs next year, either. Therefore, we need compensating value for the difference in impact. Hence the inclusion of the second-round pick in the deal.

Manson is signed for two more years. Therefore, he is not a rental and has particular value in light of the fact that right now, you have only one defenseman signed for next year. Hence the inclusion of a prospect in the deal.

Please stop creating team constructions suggesting that we would trade Manson for bit players and mid-level draft picks. It just wastes everybody's time.

Note that this trade requires an additional move (Ceci) before Muzzin and Rielly can come off the LTIR list.

Trades

TOR

Manson, Josh

ANA

Bracco, Jeremy
Liljegren, Timothy
2020 2nd round pick (TOR)
2020 6th round pick (TOR)

Additional Details:

The 6th round pick is transferred only if Toronto wins at least one round in the 2020 Stanley Cup playoffs.

Buyouts

Mikhail Grabovski: $0

Retained Salary Transactions

Phil Kessel: $1,200,000 (15%)

Draft	Round 1	Round 2	Round 3	Round 4	Round 5	Round 6	Round 7
2020
2021
2022

ROSTER

LONG-TERM OUTLOOK

EMBED

TEXT-EMBED

ROSTER SIZE	SALARY CAP	CAP HIT	OVERAGES	BONUSES	CAP SPACE
22	$81,500,000	$76,641,310	$0	$70,000	$4,858,690

Left Wing	Centre	Right Wing
Johnsson, Andreas $3,400,000$3,400,000 LW, RW UFA - 4	Matthews, Auston $11,634,000$11,634,000 C UFA - 5	Marner, Mitchell $10,893,000$10,893,000 RW UFA - 6
Hyman, Zach $2,250,000$2,250,000 RW, LW M-NTC UFA - 2	Tavares, John $11,000,000$11,000,000 C, LW NMC UFA - 6	Nylander, William $6,962,366$6,962,366 RW UFA - 5
	Kerfoot, Alexander $3,500,000$3,500,000 LW, C, RW UFA - 4	Kapanen, Kasperi $3,200,000$3,200,000 RW UFA - 3
Engvall, Pierre $925,000$925,000 RW, LW UFA - 1	Gauthier, Frédérik $675,000$675,000 C UFA - 1	Spezza, Jason $700,000$700,000 C, RW NTC UFA - 1
Timashov, Dmytro $694,444$694,444 ($70,000$70K) LW UFA - 1	Gaudet, Tyler $700,000$700,000 C UFA - 1

Left Defense	Right Defense	Goaltender
Dermott, Travis $863,333$863,333 LD/RD UFA - 1	Barrie, Tyson $2,750,000$2,750,000 RD UFA - 1	Andersen, Frederik $5,000,000$5,000,000 G M-NTC UFA - 2
Marincin, Martin $700,000$700,000 LD UFA - 1	Manson, Josh $2,050,000$2,050,000 RD M-NTC UFA - 3	Hutchinson, Michael $700,000$700,000 G UFA - 1
Sandin, Rasmus $894,167$894,167 LD UFA - 3	Ceci, Cody $4,500,000$4,500,000 RD UFA - 1
	Holl, Justin $675,000$675,000 RD UFA - 1

Scratches	Injured Reserve (IR)	Long Term IR (LTIR)
	Moore, Trevor $775,000$775,000 LW, RW UFA - 2	Rielly, Morgan $5,000,000$5,000,000 LD UFA - 3
		Muzzin, Jake $4,000,000$4,000,000 LD UFA - 1
		Mikheyev, Ilya $925,000$925,000 LW, RW UFA - 1
		Horton, Nathan $5,300,000$5,300,000 RW M-NTC, NMC UFA - 1
		Clarkson, David $5,250,000$5,250,000 RW M-NTC, NMC UFA - 1

Jan. 26, 2020 at 8:10 p.m.

#26

LeafsFanForSomeReason

Joined: Jan. 2020

Posts: 6,793

Likes: 5,278

Quoting: aedoran

Am I the only person that thinks Bracco isn't worth much.

That actually seems to be a popular opinion, but I think people are a little too down on him. He definitely has some qualities that are elite i.e his passing, vision, powerplay production. But what he lacks is what the Leafs need, which is more defensive minded play. Personally, I think he will make the NHL, just not with the Leafs.

GenXHockey liked this.

Jan. 26, 2020 at 8:11 p.m.

#27

Dan10900

Joined: Jun. 2018

Posts: 7,261

Likes: 2,706

Quoting: LeafsFanForSomeReason

That's a fair point. If that's what they need then that's what they need. But that doesn't mean it has to come from this deal, right? Just because you don't get one back from the Leafs doesn't mean you can't find another, even possibly using some of the assets that you get in this deal.

You're not wrong, but what other assets do the ducks have that would be able to get them a Manson quality player back... Steel would be the most likely to move that could get that return, but he's unlikely to get moved

LeafsFanForSomeReason liked this.

Jan. 26, 2020 at 8:12 p.m.

#28

Jah1722

Joined: Jan. 2018

Posts: 5,417

Likes: 2,896

Quoting: LeafsFanForSomeReason

https://mapleleafshotstove.com/toronto-maple-leafs-advanced-statistics/

There's a link to a site with a few decent charts/numbers for players. Obviously none are the be all end all for players, but helpful for finding out what the eye doesn't always see

They don’t have Carlo or Manson on there.

Jan. 26, 2020 at 8:12 p.m.

#29

Dan10900

Joined: Jun. 2018

Posts: 7,261

Likes: 2,706

Quoting: aedoran

Am I the only person that thinks Bracco isn't worth much.

No, you're not

aedoran liked this.

Jan. 26, 2020 at 8:13 p.m.

#30

Dan10900

Joined: Jun. 2018

Posts: 7,261

Likes: 2,706

Quoting: LeafsFanForSomeReason

He reminds me too much of Sprong to be interested in him lol

aedoran and LeafsFanForSomeReason liked this.

Jan. 26, 2020 at 8:15 p.m.

#31

Dan10900

Joined: Jun. 2018

Posts: 7,261

Likes: 2,706

Quoting: Jah1722

They don’t have Carlo or Manson on there.

Skatr does, idk about the other ones, some def don't, the rolling average one interests me, but seems to be a team stat

Jah1722 liked this.

Jan. 26, 2020 at 8:15 p.m.

#32

LeafsFanForSomeReason

Joined: Jan. 2020

Posts: 6,793

Likes: 5,278

Quoting: Jah1722

They don’t have Carlo or Manson on there.

Are you doing the skatr chart? If so make sure you switch the setting from Forwards to Defensemen

Jah1722 liked this.

Jan. 26, 2020 at 8:18 p.m.

#33

aedoran

Joined: Dec. 2017

Posts: 21,700

Likes: 12,046

Quoting: LeafsFanForSomeReason

Size could be a part of it, his skating is average or his style of play who knows. The thing that bugs me is he has been very good in The AHL for 3 seasons now and he hasn't been called up once. With the injuries Toronto has had to deal with it kind of puts up a red flag.

Jan. 26, 2020 at 8:19 p.m.

#34

LeafsFanForSomeReason

Joined: Jan. 2020

Posts: 6,793

Likes: 5,278

Quoting: AFOX10900

He reminds me too much of Sprong to be interested in him lol

Oh, he definitely has deficiencies in his game, but there are some really strong points as well. If he were the main piece in a deal, I'd stay away, but if he were thrown in it definitely adds value

Dan10900 liked this.

Jan. 26, 2020 at 8:21 p.m.

#35

LeafsFanForSomeReason

Joined: Jan. 2020

Posts: 6,793

Likes: 5,278

Quoting: aedoran

But there haven't been many injuries on the RW. I just don't think he is what Toronto needs, but that doesn't make him worthless

aedoran liked this.

Jan. 26, 2020 at 8:33 p.m.

#36

LeafsFanForSomeReason

Joined: Jan. 2020

Posts: 6,793

Likes: 5,278

Quoting: AFOX10900

They don't need to get the Manson quality player back immediately. They'll likely be bottom feeders for a couple of years, in which time they will acquire new assets and develop more draft picks. I'm sure they will be able to get somebody. Just hope that the Ducks don't sign a Marleau deal and force a 1st round pick out the door just to get rid of him because that blows. If they still have a 1st once they're ready to compete, they'll be able to make something work

Jan. 26, 2020 at 8:40 p.m.

#37

GenXHockey

Formerly Jamiepo

Joined: Jul. 2018

Posts: 21,157

Likes: 10,700

Quoting: Jesus

I don't understand why Leaf fans are still so high on Liljegren he isn't helping their team anytime soon

Should be on the team next season on elc for 2 years. That is important. I’m not opposed to moving him in a deal for a 1rhd. He has a good two way game. Just the type of defender leafs want. Good chemistry with sandin.

aedoran and PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood liked this.

Jan. 26, 2020 at 9:38 p.m.

#38

TheGuyInTheChair

Joined: Dec. 2017

Posts: 1,271

Likes: 581

Quoting: Hockeytor15

Then why do you want him so bad?

I don't I'm a Penguins fan

Jan. 26, 2020 at 9:39 p.m.

#39

KeepUps15

Joined: Jan. 2020

Posts: 4,422

Likes: 1,457

Quoting: Jesus

I don't I'm a Penguins fan

Good for you

Jan. 26, 2020 at 10:05 p.m.

#40

palhal

LongtimeLeafsufferer

Joined: Jul. 2015

Posts: 59,604

Likes: 22,715

Quoting: Jesus

I don't understand why Leaf fans are still so high on Liljegren he isn't helping their team anytime soon

But what is the point of the 10th in Conference Leafs trading futures of five points in twenty nine games Manson. Just exchanging one RHD for another in Ceci. Seems like so many want the Leafs to trade futures when the Leafs aren't doing anything meaningful this year even with Manson. Nor I think a lot of iffy playoff teams should be trading future

GenXHockey and PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood liked this.

Jan. 26, 2020 at 11:22 p.m.

#41

aedoran

Joined: Dec. 2017

Posts: 21,700

Likes: 12,046

Quoting: LeafsFanForSomeReason

But there haven't been many injuries on the RW. I just don't think he is what Toronto needs, but that doesn't make him worthless

You are correct but Toronto has several forwards that play more than one position and fitting him in wouldn't be that hard. He led the Marlies is points and he finished 2nd in the league. I think that should earn him a couple of games with the Leafs.

Jan. 26, 2020 at 11:35 p.m.

#42

PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood

Banned

Joined: May 2018

Posts: 24,997

Likes: 7,855

Quoting: Jesus

I don't understand why Leaf fans are still so high on Liljegren he isn't helping their team anytime soon

Next season is soon enough

Jan. 26, 2020 at 11:36 p.m.

#43

PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood

Banned

Joined: May 2018

Posts: 24,997

Likes: 7,855

Quoting: palhal

I agree completely, Manson vs Ceci isn't near a big enough swing to warrant moving futures.

Jan. 27, 2020 at 12:13 a.m.

#44

LeafsFanForSomeReason

Joined: Jan. 2020

Posts: 6,793

Likes: 5,278

Quoting: aedoran

For sure. I think he deserves a shot, but I'm not sure he would have succeeded in the role that he would have been forced to play. You're not going to slot him above Marner, Nylander, or Kapanen, so he'd probably end up on the 4th line. Keefe rarely uses his 4th line so he'd have very limited opportunity 5v5, but where Bracco really goes to work is on the powerplay, which, since the coaching change I believe is #1 in the league so would they be willing to tinker with it? I just don't see why they would bring him up when they have players better suited to fill the roles that need filling.

aedoran liked this.

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