Detroit declines, Kotkanieme plus your first. Then maybe. Otherwise NO

Yet another Mantha to Montreal trade...sigh...just no. Detroit considers him untouchable just like any other team would a sniper power forward with size and ability to drive the net.

...and unless Detroit retains 50% in the deal you aren't getting him for close to 3.3M

Why keep him if youre rebuilding tho? This team wont be competitive before 4-5 years (till then, Mantha will be 30 yo and his best years behind him)... Adding a guy like Sanderson plus great assets would be much better for your team imo

Yes we are rebuilding but it doesn't mean proper asset return, MTL needs to make a push for playoffs as prices window is dwindling, MTL has assets down the middle as well KK regressed, so you can make an argument either way. Pair mantha with a feeder center and you'll get hist teame Canada production... thats what detrlit fans know.

KK didnt regressed wtf. He was our best player during these playoffs. Maybe if you were watching other teams than DET, youd see there are better players than Mantha out there. Ffs some people here dont know hockey

Unfortunately i work with two hab fans who both said what I said. Idc Detroit declines, add better assets.

Aside from the who's players are better argument, the Wing's have to have some players to function with. A reason for fans to watch. That top line is it, they don't need to trade those assets for picks/ prospects
Mantha,Larkin and Bertuzzi are needed to play everyday and be some what viable, unless they add other free agents which I think they should do.

It’s a decent over but I’d pass from Detroit. I listed for another Hab fan previous 10OA picks from 2000 to 2017 and only 2 I’d select over Mantha (Brodin/Rantanen). I’d really only be interested in moving him for a blue chip prospect + or younger player (<21) with elite potential. I don’t see Suzuki, KK, or Romanov so not too interested. Mantha will still have use to us through a rebuild to help burden the load of our prospects and to mentor them.

Sanderson? You really don't know what you are talking about---if Detroit wanted a d-man they'd take Drysdale at 4--but Detroit doesn't need another d-man. Detroit's recent picks on defense (2016 1st round: Dennis Cholowski projects as a 2nd/3rd pair LHD. 2016 2nd round: Filip Hronek projects as 1st pair RHD. 2017 2nd round: Gustav Lindström projects as solid 3rd pair RHD. 2018 2nd round: Jared McIsaac projects as 2nd pair LHD. 2019 1st round: Moritz Seider too soon to accurately project but expectations are also 1st pair RHD. And they have plenty of cap room to go after the top UFA d-men if they wanted.

Now, getting back to Mantha. He's turning 26 (and 30 means 3-4 more near peak years. You do realize Brendan Shanahan was 29-34 during Detroit's Cup runs of the late 90's early 2000's). Mantha is just now figuring out just how dominant he can be on a consistent basis and his play will be crucial in the rebuild. There is no reason to get rid of him at this point...only if he continues to get hurt in fights would there be any consideration to get rid of him....otherwise it's a ridiculous consideration.

In 2016-17 Mantha had a slow start to the season but still finished with 17 goals but fought Luke Witkowski leading to an injury that cost him the last 5 games of the season.

In 2017-18 Mantha had 24 goals (but didn't get hurt during fights with T. Hamonic or R. Kesler) and played 80 games.

In 2018-19 Mantha fought Patrik Nemeth after a questionable hit on teammate Dylan Larkin. Mantha had surgery on his hand, but missed a month. The Wings were 12-12-3 when Mantha got hurt; 15-20-7 by the time he returned. He put up 25 goals in 67 games.

In 2019-20 Mantha had 12 goals in 29 games when he went after Maple Leafs defenseman Jake Muzzin after a dirty hit on teammate Madison Bowey. Muzzin slew-footed Mantha which lead to a punctured lung. His 16 goals in 43 games extrapolates to 30 over the course of a full season. Yet, most agree that Mantha has the skill set to be a 40-goal scorer. If not he'll be an upper 30's goal scorer....

You don't give up on 40 goal scorers when they are 26 unless the return is mind-boggling.

Drysdale is a RHD and you already have two elite ones. Sanderson would look amazing alongside Seider in a couple of years. If not, Askarov could be your franchise goalie at 9 and im sure Yzerman loves him just like he loved Vasilevski back in 2012. Or simply grab Perfetti, Holtz or Lundell

hooked on phonics lately?...can just as easily buy a left-handed top pair d-man for nothing in free agency when very few other teams can afford those kind of cap hits over then next 3 flat cap offseasons or gasp teach one of their many prospects to play defense off-handed.

Mantha is still more valuable as a 30-40 goal scorer than a prospect with potential to answer your other points... prospects don't always achieve especially goalies and smallish Jr hockey goal scorers.

Plus you can't have a team full of no ones with all prospects if you want any kind of fan base to buy seats--whenever that becomes available.

Lmao such nonsense, Detroit has a better future outlook than Montreal atp. If you think it's gonna take Yzerman 5 years to turn this team into something decent you're gonna be disaapointed

Just because your RHD doesn’t mean you must play RD. Drysdale played LD for WJC 20 this last year when Byram went down and looked really good.

Since when rebulding means trading your best players🙄

You sound like if Detroit was ok with loosing for 4-5 years. Why not just close the arena, save some money for a couple of years and reopen it when the kids get to their prime, right?

Because a hockey team is in the Win business. They cant afford to just put an AHL level team on the ice, it's won't move crowds.

The fact that so many people are blind to this kills me
..

I think it's going to take 4-5 years before they have long playoff runs (especially if they keep losing positions in the next couple draft lotteries--what is it like 8 positions lost over the last 4 years). But Mantha will still be near his peak as his skill set is size and shot accuracy. So there is absolutely no need to trade him....especially when you consider the Wings have had extra picks in the 1st, 2nd, and early 3rd rounds over the last 4 drafts and have 6 selections over the top 65 in this year's draft. I really don't think some people on here understands just how valuable those extra picks are in aggregate--but this thread doesn't understand how valuable good young first line players are worth.

As to being further along in its rebuild. Montreal didn't really go all in on a rebuild--they kind of never committed to bottoming out or staying competitive. As a result Montreal has bounced all over draft positioning and not been consistent with developing through the draft or using prospects to supplement success for example they traded Mikhail Sergachev, but are developing Jesperi Kotkaniemi--who doesn't look like he progressed in his development during the regular season--but did have some goals in the playoffs--he's still too young to project if he is top line or top 6 yet. They have some good prospects (Alexander Romanov, Cole Caufield, and Cayden Primeau...but after that it's not really great as Ryan Poehling has no offensive upside (he'll be a bottom 6 guy) and Josh Brook is basically Cholowski only worse at defense so he'll be a 3rd pair guy. They have a Fin and a Swede in the 2nd round that are way too young and still overseas to project.

Yet, their problem will be their expensive older players cap hits (whether that comes from renewed contracts that need to be handed out to the 20-30 goal scorers coming off their deals and becoming UFA like Gallagher or their old players under contract like Weber and Price--goalies usually fall off a cliff around age 35 (which is the 2022-23 season for him) and he still has 3 more years under contract at 10.5M after that. Primeau's ELC will help balance that situation though.

All that makes it difficult to compare to Detroit which doesn't have these long term contract constraints (only 5 players under contract for '21-'22), whose 1st line is young (Mantha turns 26 in Sept, Bertuzzi 26 in Feb, and Larkin 26 in July 2022) and will have more prospects/players that were taken in the top 10 (Rasmussen, Zadina, Seider, plus this year's #4 overall,and most likely another top 5 next year), and other young players that have graduated from prospect status like Fabbri (24 yrs old 2014 1st#21), Hronek (22 yrs old 2016 2nd#53), Zadina (20 yrs old 2017 1st#6) and Lindström (22 yrs old 2017 2nd#38). Beyond those 4 points Detroit has other high prospects that will become NHL'ers in the next year or two like Cholowski (2016 1st #20), Veleno (2018 1st#30), Berggren (2018 2nd #33), and McIsaac (2018 2nd#36). Throw in bottom 6 prospects like Givani Smith (2016 2nd#46). Another thing is last year's 2nd & 3rd round picks like Antti Tuomisto (#35), Robert Mastrosimone (#54), Albert Johansson (#60), Albin Grewe (#66), and this year's 2nd & 3rd's (32, 45, 57, 62, and 64 overall). Finally, add in those expected sweetners from cap dumps or just talented players that just no longer fit other team's budgets and the Wings should very well have more potential than Montreal. But as was the case with Evgeny Svechnikov sometimes potential doesn't turn out or takes longer than expected.


You do realize the Red Wings were purchased for 8M in 1982 (that's only $21.8M in today's money).Less than they spend on individual players.

Actually, Olympia Entertainment and its sibling subsidiary Little Caesar Enterprises Inc along with MotorCity Casino Hotel and Olympia Development (real estate ventures) have plenty of money to fund the team indefinitely. The increase in take out pizza is negating any operating loss from the entertainment side of the business. Last year it's revenue was something like 3.81 billion and 2019 was the most profitable year of Motor Casino ever which helps mitigate some of its losses in 2020.

I think what jpsnow13 is saying is that it doesn’t make sense to trade Mantha as he’s a critical component to our team for multiple of reasons.

I get that. I just don't want any doubt that the Ilitches are sitting on piles of cash and can very well afford to spend to the cap and make money off an empty area for years to come.

The whole District Detroit project and taking 200M in tax money from public school/downtown coffers for a billionaire owner to build that arena: one that hasn't followed through on promises to develop the surround parcels they already own doesn't sit well with me.

Let's not give them another excuse like they need butts in seats to make the Wings a viable business.