Any prospect that Washington didnt draft? lol

Kotkaniemi isnt a prospect anymore.

Caufield still holds question Mark's for people on this site, which I understand but he was arguably the second best 18 year old in the NCAA last year behind only Zegras.

I'd say Nick Roberston, Alex Turcotte and Tolvanen are the most overrated on this site.

He wasnt getting past Arizona at 5th. They would have taken him over Hayton.

"Yeah Morgan Frost and whatever ECHLer Pittsburgh drafted two years ago are overrated"

really didn't know that, interesting

lol Penguins love to draft prospects and 15oa picks.... that organization is a mystery to me.

Kakko was worse than Hughes this past season. In fact, he was one of the worst NHL'ers this past season based on analytics. But to say both are over rated is irrational and, quite frankly, completely misguided. Wait until he puts on a few pounds, kid just turned 19 in May.

Logic and reason have no place here- if you're an analytical disaster as a physically over matched 18 year old first overall pick, you're going to suck forever. It's almost as if it may take 2-3 years and some physical maturation for him to be fully NHL ready....oh wait, that's literally what every scout said when he entered the league. Crazy!

I don't think this is true, and "based on analytics" is a weird blanket statement. I wouldn't mind digging into it, but you'd have to refer which model, and more importantly any indication that Hughes is good, rather than just "Kakko was bad", cause I've already said that myself.

Based on the statement I quoted earlier you made it sound like Hughes was worse than Kakko. Please dig deeper. He was not by a number of measures, including CF/60 (-14.1), F/60 (-12.9). Considering that Kakko's expectations were higher upon entering the league due to his performance in a professional league and playing very well in the WC's, I am not sure how he had a less disappointing season. Here is a 5v5 player comparison per NaturalStatTrick

http://naturalstattrick.com/playercompare.php?fromseason=20192020&thruseason=20192020&stype=2&sit=5v5&score=all&stdoi=oi&rate=n&p1=8481559&p2=8481554&loc=B&gpfilt=none&fd=&td=&tgp=410&lines=single

Hughes isn't very good either, but he's not as horrible as you make him out to be. He's already a very good transition player who drives play. Playing with slow footed guys like Simmonds and Zacha or guys who can't catch a pass to save their life like Miles Wood every shift didn't help him either. If you subscribe to The Athletic they did a solid breakdown of what I am alluding to.

https://theathletic.com/1663703/2020/03/11/the-video-room-why-jack-hughes-isnt-a-star-yet/

Now scroll down to offensive zone starts %-age and ask yourself why the numbers tip so slightly in Hughes favor. Shooting percentage also falls in Hughes' favor.

I'm not really invested in whoever is worse, my point was just that both had pretty awful seasons, that's all.



Continuing off of this post; I don't think anyone's saying that niether of these players can't turn into useful, good or great NHL players. This isn't even remotely controversial, but it's not the conversation we were having.

That directly corresponds with a coach sheltering a young centerman who struggled in the dot his rookie year. Way to cherry pick one stat as the reason all of the other ones are clearly in Hughes's favor.

*clearly* in Hughes favor? I don't know if you're serious. This reeks of dishonesty and personal investment. They both struggled. Even if you argue Kakko struggled more, Hughes had better conditions to succeed. This discussion is reduced to nothing at this point.

Tolvanen, had a great season in the KHL draft+1, and never improved from there.
Never was a fan of Turcotte, don't know why people valued him so high, especially over Zegras.
Habs fans treat Caufield like the 2nd coming of Christ.

I think Holtz is underrated, I would have taken him ahead of Raymond easily.

Yes clearly. Obviously you are failing to read or comprehend the numbers.

Hughes GF% 34.00 XGA 30.59 XGF% 47.27
Kakko GF% 28.57 XGA 38.84 XGF% 39.29

These numbers are not close. In fact, Kakko's GF% of 28.57 and XGF% of 39.29 are the 3rd and 2nd lowest of all NHL players with 700 total TOI during the season.

There is no personal agenda or dishonesty here. You say Hughes had better conditions to succeed based off of less defensive zone starts....you realize Kakko played on a PP with Mika and Panarin? You realize that on 5v5 he was paired with a promising young center in Chytil on the 3rd line, facing some of the opposing teams worst lines? Yet Jack had better conditions to succeed, centering a second line with a combination of Wayne Simmonds, Miles Wood, and Pavel Zacha. I thought your bio was a joke, but it turns out it's true- you really don't watch the games.

You're looking at 5on5 numbers only and then reference the PP, while simultaneously saying that I don't understand the numbers? okay buddy

That's the best retort you could come back with? It was used to contradict your point that "Hughes had better conditions to succeed". He didn't. Watch a game or two. I'd love to dig into the "All Situations" numbers with you if you so choose to further show you how wrong your opinion is about these two players.

Again, I'm not at all invested enough in this to actually keep going back and forth in essays. I don't care. They're both bad. And listen, I hope they turn good. I hope they both get a chance to develop their skills and abilities into positive on-ice impact. I just don't care that much about getting into the weeds regarding which of two bad players is the worst, currently.

If you don't care then stop responding. Pretty simple