Id find a spot for werenski in there, possible over Weber or mcavoy

idk why he gets so much love. Hes a great D sure, but Jones really makes him look good.

Those two I find are the most controversial on here, I saw the exact same quote essentially but names flipped not too long ago.

Werenski is a fine player. Putting him over either of those two players is insanity.

I would bump Carlson over, then it’s tough to argue with much.

forsure. im a big jones fan, but the analytic community definitely is not

I was debating that too, but from a sheer volume of production, over the last 3 years he leads D in points, and PPG. hes also finished 5th, 4th and 2nd in Norris over those seasons. Im definitely not a Washington Capitals fan, and I get hes not great defensively, but man can he ever produce.

Why Carlson in the 2nd tier? He can't defend...



No lol, Werenski has been great but not elite. Jones was the better one defensively on that pair so I guess Werenski looked better/could get more opportunities offensively.

Controversial take.. Carlson shouldnt be in top-5 or maybe even top-10.. sure, he gets points and is great offensively but is a defensively yikes

I get that, but i just see him taking too many nights off. It’s not like he’s completely invisible, but i see some nights where he’s really exploitable. The thing is, on those nights he’s still sliding the puck over to ovechkin on the powerplay, so he still gets his cookies.

I’m with you here....

That's great, he was the best defenseman offensively last year but his #1 job is to defend and that's something he's really bad at. Maybe later, in your top20 but top3 is too much.

It's like Draisaitl, he's ranked so good cause he can score.

hes honestly not that bad defensively. we've seen Burns in the past ranked in the top 3 of best D in the league and he was probably worse defensively. there is a reason Carlsson is constantly a Norris guy

I think you should have a fourth tier of the young guys (Heiskanen, Makar, Hughes, Chabot, Dahlin, Fox) as opposed to the guys who have already established their elite status. In time, some of them might eclipse the guys who are about to enter the back side of their careers (notably Weber, Letang and maybe even Reilly). Remember where Drew Doughty was as late as 2018?

I know, the young guys are tricky. like Makar/Heiskanen/Hughes had a great season, but they dont have the pedigree of guys like Weber or Letang. chances are, the young guys should be better this upcoming year, but you never know. we've seen young D men have such a promising start to their career and then faulter. not saying its going to happen, its unlikely, but they lack the pedigree but have the upside

Disagree, he's been really bad defensively for 3+ years but the eye test makes him look okay and they're about same and Burns shouldn't have been in the top3 anyways. But you're right, Carlson is consistently a Norris guy because voters only rely on offense.

Other way around

no chance

Lol proves my previous point

They're pretty much glued at the hip, so the only way to really know is if they spend a decent time apart. WOWY favor Werenski's individual performance over Jones' though.

Can't they both be good?