Makes sense. I kinda like it. Think COL could probably get even more than this.

@Jfstompers would you do this trade?

When you say "more", do you mean a higher pick?

It makes a tonne of sense to me, I like it as well. It solves the goalie issue for Colorado affordably, and also gets a direct replacement for Graves. And whilst Nemeth is worse than Graves and older, he actually fits the 3rd pairing PK role a little better than Graves, who is really more suited to a more offensive D pairing than a purely defensive pairing.

I think two thirds could be realistic. Like 2021 VGK 3rd and 2022 DET 3rd.

Would make sense for the Avs to add on these picks as they're lacking 2nd rounders for both this and the next year.

I like this from Detroit’s perspective. Nemeth and Bernier have both played big roles in Detroit but both have expiring contracts. If we could trade them for a guy like Graves who would provide short-term and long-term help for our defense, I’d do it.

In a year where the expansion draft is coming, this makes no sense. This just means we have to expose and probably lose a younger defenseman, as we'd have to protect Graves after giving up an asset to get him. Also, now we have a hole in net and just gave up our best PK dman. Unless it's picks or high end prospects that are expansion exempt coming back, a trade like this just makes no sense for Detroit this year.

Bernier + Cholowski for Graves

I’d do one of Nemeth or Bernier with retention but not both as they’ll have value at the TDL. My rationalization is that Toews (vastly superior defender to Graves) went for two late second rounders. Yes, Colorado used cap leverage against the Islanders but Detroit had more cap so that’s a moot point. Another is expansion draft protection slots which Detroit should leverage against Colorado. Let’s say with retention that Bernier and Nemeth at minimum return a third at the TDL then that’s at minimum 3x third rounders vs 2x seconds rounders for Toews. It gets worse when you think about Schmidt for a lonely third.

I like the trade maybe try and mix in one more pic or player to fill Calvert's spot or trade for a filler.

Graves is better than Cholowski and Stecher and would improve your team, even if you lose one of Cholowski or Stecher in expansion.

I'd say with the retention the Avs have to add a late pick.

Toews was an RFA with only 1 year of team control left, which makes a massive difference to his valuation. Sure, a lesser team might have traded 2 2nd's for him like Colorado did, but chances are that he doesn't sign a long-term deal on a bad team.

The Toews and Graves situations couldn't be any more different due to the term on the contracts. Graves is cost controlled for 3 years which is very different. Unlike NYI Colorado are not in a position where they are forced to trade Graves.

The Schmidt trade also isn't really a good comparable, because again that was all about capspace and very little else. This trade with Graves would be a pure hockey trade, and Detroit would be upgrading their D group for the long term.

Who on Detroit's roster do you think could adequately replace Calvert?

Hard to say if Toews would’ve signed an extension with a non-playoff team, maybe he would’ve wanted more money or felt comfortable with the coaching staff/teammates. The point is multiple teams had the the available cap space to acquire Toews and to a lesser extent Schmidt. The point is that yes Colorado isn’t in a cap crunch but they’re in an expansion draft crunch which is the same thing for leverage. So why would Detroit pay comparable or slightly less for a vastly inferior player? The whole point is that Detroit could trade Nemeth/Bernier for picks and then just acquire Graves for pennies on the dollar pre-expansion if they were interested in him. We have to consider who would Detroit expose to keep Graves? Is it that big of a difference or would the FO prefer to get expansion exempt players?

I think you're overstating the Colorado "expansion draft crunch". Avs will have no problem letting Seattle take one of Graves/Compher/Donskoi. In fact the way the roster is structured I think they even expect to get one of those contracts off the books in the ExD.

Why would Colorado trade Graves for pennies on the dollar pre-expansion? There's no reason for that. If they trade Graves for a pick or whatever they'd be losing Graves for cheap PLUS another guy who Seattle pick. Teams who tried to get clever with Vegas almost all lost those deals.

You could trade Nemeth and Bernier for picks, sure. But I doubt Yzerman wants to be stuck in a rebuild forever, and if he could get a guy who can play in the top 4 for 2.5 seasons as a steadying presence for Seider or Hronek then I think he'd do it. Keep in mind that Detroit has multiple roster spots to fill on D in the offseason, and getting guys like Staal as stopgaps each year isn't going to be a viable strategy if the team wants to develop some cohesion.

Moreover, you might get a couple of 3rd's for Bernier and Nemeth at the deadline. But you might get worse than that also. Namestnikov went for a 4th last year for instance.

I think your underestimating your expansion protections. If Seattle was to take Compher or Donskoi they’d be doing you a favor as they’re not worth their cap hits. So if you could rid yourself of Graves + Compher/Donskoi that frees up considerable cap for Makar and Landeskog extensions.

Having multiple draft picks + free cap space doesn’t mean you’re constantly in rebuild mode but rather you can sign FAs plus add to your prospect pool for valuable ELCs.

Yes, it would be nice to have capspace, but the Avs really only need one $3m contract to go off the books this offseason to stay under the cap ceiling. There's no reason to give away an additional player on the cheap.

FILPPULA or Ryan would probably be the logical choices, does they completely replace Calvert no, but could offer some aspects of Calverts role. This is based on the fact I like the trade and just want to squeeze every possible bit of value possible and the recent news which was after you made this post. If nothing else could be workable in a future trade possibly.

Cholowski hasn't even had a chance to prove himself and I'm not even talking about him or Stetcher anyways. Hronek, Lindstrom and Dekeyser... now we're out of protections. You're value isn't bad, it just doesn't make any sense as far as asset management, especially for where we are at in our rebuild.

No team wants to give a player away for cheap but a stagnant cap ceiling threw a wrench in a bunch of front office’s plans. Now it’s even more important to have team friendly deals on contenders.

I'm super disappointed in make the play so far , id do it. Graves upgrades the blue line alot and long term.