Forums/Armchair-GM

An idea I had if they want to rebuild

Created by: sens65
Initial Creation Date: Feb 28, 2021
Published: Feb 28 at 11:31
Team: 2020-21 Pittsburgh Penguins
Team Explanation
Is the value even in the ballpark?
Trades
PIT
  1. Tavares, John ($2,300,000 retained)
  2. Robertson, Nicholas
  3. Hirvonen, Roni [Reserve List]
  4. Amirov, Rodion [Reserve List]
  5. Hållander, Filip
  6. 2021 1st round pick (TOR)
  7. 2022 1st round pick (TOR)
TOR
  1. Crosby, Sidney
Buyouts
  • Jack Johnson: $1,166,667
Retained Salary Transactions
  • Nick Bjugstad: $2,050,000 (50%)
DRAFT YEARROUND 1ROUND 2ROUND 3ROUND 4ROUND 5ROUND 6ROUND 7
2021
TOR
PIT
PIT
PIT
WSH
ANA
2022
PIT
TOR
PIT
PIT
PIT
PIT
PIT
PIT
2023
PIT
PIT
PIT
PIT
PIT
PIT
PIT
ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES BONUSESCAP SPACE
25$81,500,000$78,131,009$0$1,245,000$3,368,991
Left WingCenterRight Wing
PIT
Guentzel, Jake
$6,000,000
LW, RW
UFA - 4
PIT
Malkin, Evgeni
$9,500,000
C
NMC
UFA - 2
PIT
Tanev, Brandon
$3,500,000
RW, LW
NTC
UFA - 5
PIT
McCann, Jared
$2,940,000
LW, C
RFA - 2
TOR
Tavares, John
$8,700,000
C
NMC
UFA - 5
PIT
Rust, Bryan
$3,500,000
RW, LW
UFA - 2
PIT
Aston-Reese, Zach
$1,000,000
LW, RW
RFA - 1
PIT
Blueger, Teddy
$750,000
C, LW
RFA - 1
PIT
Kapanen, Kasperi
$3,200,000
RW
RFA - 2
PIT
Jankowski, Mark
$700,000
LW, C
RFA - 1
PIT
Lafferty, Sam
$750,000
C, LW
UFA - 2
PIT
Sceviour, Colton
$1,200,000
RW
UFA - 1
TOR
Robertson, Nicholas
$821,667
LW
RFA - 3
PIT
Angello, Anthony
$725,000
C, RW
RFA - 2
TOR
Hållander, Filip
$764,167
C
RFA - 3
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
PIT
Matheson, Michael
$4,875,000
LD
UFA - 6
PIT
Letang, Kris
$7,250,000
RD
NMC NTC
UFA - 2
PIT
Jarry, Tristan
$3,500,000
G
UFA - 3
PIT
Pettersson, Marcus
$4,025,175
LD
UFA - 5
PIT
Ceci, Cody
$1,250,000
RD
UFA - 1
PIT
DeSmith, Casey
$1,250,000
G
UFA - 2
PIT
Joseph, Pierre-Olivier
$863,333
LD
RFA - 2
PIT
Marino, John
$925,000
RD
UFA - 1
PIT
Friedman, Mark
$725,000
RD
RFA - 2
PIT
Ruhwedel, Chad
$700,000
RD
UFA - 1
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
PIT
Zucker, Jason
$5,500,000
LW, RW
NTC
UFA - 3
PIT
Dumoulin, Brian
$4,100,000
LD
NTC
UFA - 3
PIT
Riikola, Juuso
$1,150,000
LD
UFA - 2
PIT
Rodrigues, Evan
$700,000
RW, C
UFA - 1
Taxi Squad
PIT
O'Connor, Drew
$925,000 ($0)
LW
RFA - 2
PIT
Larmi, Emil
$792,500 ($0)
G
RFA - 1
PIT
Weber, Yannick
$700,000 ($0)
RD
UFA - 1
PIT
Currie, Josh
$700,000 ($0)
RW, C
UFA - 1

Embed Code

  • To display this team on another website or blog, add this iFrame to the appropriate page
  • Customize the height attribute in the iFrame code below to fit your website appropriately. Minimum recommended: 400px.

Text-Embed

Click to Highlight
Feb 28 at 12:25
#26
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,782
Likes: 2,395
Quoting: hockeyfanatic05
Tavares played 3 more games....


And what about that screams massive upgrade fpr the leafs?
Feb 28 at 12:25
#27
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 2,535
Likes: 1,195
Edited Feb 28 at 12:31
Quoting: pharrow
lets be clear on it.
His being a leaf has everything to do with why YOU think he's a top 25 prospect. It has NOTHING to do with why I think he's not a top 25 prospect.
I can look at 2 WJC teams in CAN and USA and know, there are 25 players right there, who are better prospects than Nick.

I'm sorry you haven't figured that out, but those guys, are the best young players in the world. Period. And in those games, there were WAY more than 25 players there better than Nick.


You realized the US wanted Nick to play for their WJC team and he declined right? He was invited, was a shoe in for the team given he played for them the year before, but passed. It can't be you are just up in the clouds on this one though, nope. There's a massive conspiracy across hundreds of outlets to pump the tires on this guy because hes a Leaf. Nick Robertson isn't a top prospect, the world is flat and corona virus is fake.
SomeonesOffended liked this.
Feb 28 at 12:26
#28
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 3,278
Likes: 1,414
Quoting: JaredOfLondon
And what about that screams massive upgrade fpr the leafs?


If you dont think crosby is an upgrade over tavares, then you are by farrr the most biased person who uses this site. You brought up point totals, but left out total games so you can make tavares look better. Just stop
Feb 28 at 12:30
#29
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 4,192
Likes: 2,143
Quoting: pharrow
authorities LOL experts who go on tv and say things like "crosby's gonna get traded." with their "sources"

Dude one day when you become an actual adult, you'll realize they are just blowhards.

Here is some facts though. He didn't make the team. I'll go with the coach who was making the decision of who stays and who goes based off what they were doing on the ice. He didn't make the team.
But go on......he's a top 25 prospect you say tears of joy


Dude, what? He wasn't released to play for team USA because he/the Leafs wanted him at training camp.
Feb 28 at 12:31
#30
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 16,826
Likes: 4,227
Quoting: Byrr
You realized the US wanted Nick to play for their WJC team and he declined right? He was invited, was a shoe in for the team given he played for them the year before, but passed. It can't be you are just up in the clouds on this one though, nope. There's a massive conspiracy across hundreds out outlets to pump the tires on this guy because hes a Leaf. Nick Robertson isn't a top prospect, the world is flat and corona virus is fake.


getting an invite and making the team are two different things. Plenty of guys get invites. Making the team is a different story. And if you don't have the balls to go play with the best prospects in the world, that pretty much tells me all I need to know.
But hey, some TOR media called him a top 25 prospect....must be true.
Feb 28 at 12:32
#31
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 2,535
Likes: 1,195
Quoting: pharrow
getting an invite and making the team are two different things. Plenty of guys get invites. Making the team is a different story. And if you don't have the balls to go play with the best prospects in the world, that pretty much tells me all I need to know.
But hey, some TOR media called him a top 25 prospect....must be true.


The TOR media? Even US outlets like ESPN have him at #11. TSN, the Toronto Sports Network, actually has him lower at #17. Tell you what, you provide outlets that don't count him as a top prospect in the NHL. Thats going to be a much shorter list.

Also pretty funny that you are saying you absolutely don't not count him as a top prospect because he's a Leaf and then blame the Toronto media.
Feb 28 at 12:34
#32
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,782
Likes: 2,395
Quoting: pharrow
listen to how absurd this sounds.
This is why people mock TOR fans. Robertson is a top 25 prospect in the NHL.... since F when? Because he's a leaf he has to be a top prospect in the NHL? His ass didn't even make WJC.
Stop over hyping guys. He's a 5'9 midget winger who will struggle to crave out a role because he'll never be a bottom 6 guy as he doesn't have the size and the competition to be a top 6 guy is fierce.
You can say what ever you want about the penguins team. Yeah they got holes. so does every team. But with no injuries they are in the hut with everyone else and anything can happen.
Believe me it was no shock they lost last year coming back after months off. But that has little to do with the talent on the team.
Truth is you get a 1C who can play literally every situation in hockey well. PK, Faceoffs, Dzone, Ozone, PP whatever it is.
you give up some mid to low round prospects and picks for it. It's not really the "future" of TOR. The "future" for TOR is already on the ice.


What a bunch of randomly connected dots that make no sense
Feb 28 at 12:35
#33
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,782
Likes: 2,395
Quoting: hockeyfanatic05
If you dont think crosby is an upgrade over tavares, then you are by farrr the most biased person who uses this site. You brought up point totals, but left out total games so you can make tavares look better. Just stop


You're ignoring the word massive.
Crosby is not enough of an upgrade over tavares, especially at his age, especially with the leafs retaining, and most especially at that additional cost
SomeonesOffended liked this.
Feb 28 at 12:37
#34
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 16,826
Likes: 4,227
Quoting: Byrr
The TOR media? Even US outlets like ESPN have him at #11. TSN, the Toronto Sports Network, actually has him lower at #17. Tell you what, you provide outlets that don't count him as a top prospect in the NHL. Thats going to be a much shorter list.

Also pretty funny that you are saying you absolutely don't not count him as a top prospect because he's a Leaf and then blame the Toronto media.


why wouldn't I blame the media you obviously listen to?
top 25 prospect...selected like 53 over all in his own draft.
ok there.......
Feb 28 at 12:39
#35
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 2,535
Likes: 1,195
Quoting: pharrow
why wouldn't I blame the media you obviously listen to?
top 25 prospect...selected like 53 over all in his own draft.
ok there.......


Go figure, prospects potential a year after they are drafted arn't tied to where they were drafted. Imagine that.
Feb 28 at 12:39
#36
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 3,278
Likes: 1,414
Quoting: JaredOfLondon
You're ignoring the word massive.
Crosby is not enough of an upgrade over tavares, especially at his age, especially with the leafs retaining, and most especially at that additional cost


lmao my god you leaf fans are absolutely pathetic. You guys brag every year how amazing your team is, then lose in the playoffs. Cry all offseason about your players, and then the season begins and the bragging starts. Players like crosby has won with less talent. He does it all, tavares doesnt
sens65 liked this.
Feb 28 at 12:41
#37
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 3,262
Likes: 2,263
Quoting: pharrow
Kind of absurd.
What are the leafs really giving up here.
OK JT but you are getting back Crosby. That's a win for TOR for at least a couple of years. Probably 3-4.
2 first round picks. Yeah those late picks aren't "the future" or TOR. Lets just stop that nonsense right now. 50/50 chance they even play 300 games.
Then a handful of B prospects. Again. not the "future".
As they giving something up yeah, but it's what they are getting for it.

The real issue with this for me is how does Crosby fit in that locker room? You got a group of young guys who are like we want to take the league over. It's why JT isn't much for leadership there. While they may all say nice things about Thornton I think he knows to stay in his own lane. That is their club, Thornton is riding their backs not the other way around. If there is a voice there that carries weight it's the 3 young guys who are putting the team on their back. Not the aging vet on league minimum salary.

So if what you want is leadership etc.. how does that really help. How does that dynamic work out. If I'm Crosby I'm like why bother. He owns his locker room. It's not a competition. He won't own the TOR locker room. That doesn't seem like the kind of thing a guy wants to walk into until they are ready to not be that guy.

So you think the difference between Crosby and JT (with retention) is worth more than Amirov (recent 15 OVR), Robertson, Hirvonen, Hallander, and 2 firsts? Im not sure how you define ‘B’ prospect but I’d wager I’d take Robertson & Amirov over any prospect in the Penguins pipeline so does that make yours all C and below? Everything you said about leadership with JT and Joe is all speculation on your part.
Feb 28 at 12:41
#38
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,782
Likes: 2,395
Quoting: hockeyfanatic05
lmao my god you leaf fans are absolutely pathetic. You guys brag every year how amazing your team is, then lose in the playoffs. Cry all offseason about your players, and then the season begins and the bragging starts. Players like crosby has won with less talent. He does it all, tavares doesnt


What a weird direction to take this in. Dude, the leafs arnt giving you all that and saving no cap for a 2c upgrade.
The utter hilarity that is a pens fan talking about bragging is incredible.
SomeonesOffended liked this.
Feb 28 at 12:44
#39
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 3,278
Likes: 1,414
Quoting: JaredOfLondon
What a weird direction to take this in. Dude, the leafs arnt giving you all that and saving no cap for a 2c upgrade.
The utter hilarity that is a pens fan talking about bragging is incredible.


The utter hilarity is that leaf fans have nothing to brag about, but the pens do. Crosby is a upgrade over tavares. You can not deny that.
Feb 28 at 12:45
#40
stuff
Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 1,035
Likes: 293
leafs decline they are giving away there captain who btw is 3 years younger 4 of there top prospect a first rounder and a second for declining good player who gets injurys often
Feb 28 at 12:45
#41
LongtimeLeafsufferer
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 36,576
Likes: 10,430
With the retention it's really 11m Crosby for Tavares. And for teams to to successful, you need good cheap ELC players. Leafs pass as Armivov, Hallander and Robertson are expected to be contributing Leafsby 22/23 and then thos other three assets. Easy pass by the Leafs. Tavares doesn't waive and maybe Crosby doesn't waive also.
Feb 28 at 12:59
#42
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 16,826
Likes: 4,227
Quoting: Byrr
Go figure, prospects potential a year after they are drafted arn't tied to where they were drafted. Imagine that.


you still clutching on here.
No particular order. Other than 1 which isn't even a discussion.

1 Wright.
2. Byfield
3, Raymond
4, Sanderson
5, Drysdale
6. Holtz
7. Quinn
8. Rossi
9. Perfetti
10 TURCOTTE
11 KREBS,
12 Power
13 Edvinsson
14 Clarke
15 Beniers
16 L Hughes
17 Johnson
18 Guenther
19 Eklund
20 Lambos
21 Raty
22 Sillinger
23 Zegras
24 CAUFIELD
25 Seider
26 Lambert
27 Savoie
I'm sure I could list of at a bare min 10 prospects from 22 any team would rather have.....
But would you like to go on with this asinine position you are holding?

Dude you got like 4 years worth of drafts your competing with, sitting here pretending the top 10 or so players in each draft, that aren't already playing in the NHL. aren't better prospects.
Believe me, a lot of those guys won't be sitting pine at 19.
Feb 28 at 1:01
#43
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 2,535
Likes: 1,195
Quoting: pharrow
you still clutching on here.
No particular order. Other than 1 which isn't even a discussion.

1 Wright.
2. Byfield
3, Raymond
4, Sanderson
5, Drysdale
6. Holtz
7. Quinn
8. Rossi
9. Perfetti
10 TURCOTTE
11 KREBS,
12 Power
13 Edvinsson
14 Clarke
15 Beniers
16 L Hughes
17 Johnson
18 Guenther
19 Eklund
20 Lambos
21 Raty
22 Sillinger
23 Zegras
24 CAUFIELD
25 Seider
26 Lambert
27 Savoie
I'm sure I could list of at a bare min 10 prospects from 22 any team would rather have.....
But would you like to go on with this asinine position you are holding?

Dude you got like 4 years worth of drafts your competing with, sitting here pretending the top 10 or so players in each draft, that aren't already playing in the NHL. aren't better prospects.
Believe me, a lot of those guys won't be sitting pine at 19.


Its pretty funny you had to start including players who arn't even drafted yet to make your list long enough.

And yet all the experts have him in there. You've yet to make a coherent argument for why he shouldn't. Again, why would anyone listen to some scrub on CapFriendly over the guys who put thousands of hours into their analysis?

Also wow, simply amazing you have Zegras at 23. Talk about invalidating any point you are trying to make.
SomeonesOffended liked this.
Feb 28 at 1:06
#44
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 16,826
Likes: 4,227
Quoting: BStinson
So you think the difference between Crosby and JT (with retention) is worth more than Amirov (recent 15 OVR), Robertson, Hirvonen, Hallander, and 2 firsts? Im not sure how you define ‘B’ prospect but I’d wager I’d take Robertson & Amirov over any prospect in the Penguins pipeline so does that make yours all C and below? Everything you said about leadership with JT and Joe is all speculation on your part.


you are way over valuing draft picks and prospects. A. those 2 firsts are 25+ most likely.
Robertson is a nitch player. If he can't make a top 9 somewhere he's dead in the water because he won't be a bottom 6 player. This is why guys are 50/50 players when drafted 1st round. Stop acting like every player coming out the 1st round is some magic success. They aren't. You actually have to DO at the NHL. What it is, is a lot of hope and dream for a guy who is a top player till this day. Yeah he's a bit older but make no doubt he's still a great player. You get 2-3 cup runs out of him easy.
Meanwhile you have to hope you get something out of what's there. None of it is to the same quality level. Fact is TOR future is already on the ice. Everything you just listed you are hoping is just depth. We both know they aren't going to be those guys. There isn't another AM there. No one there to carry a team. You are getting a Carry the team guy, for a whole bunch of take me along with you.
Feb 28 at 1:07
#45
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 16,826
Likes: 4,227
Quoting: Byrr
Its pretty funny you had to start including players who arn't even drafted yet to make your list long enough.

And yet all the experts have him in there. You've yet to make a coherent argument for why he shouldn't. Again, why would anyone listen to some scrub on CapFriendly over the guys who put thousands of hours into their analysis?

Also wow, simply amazing you have Zegras at 23. Talk about invalidating any point you are trying to make.


I think it's pretty funny you think guys who aren't drafted aren't prospects.
Feb 28 at 1:08
#46
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 2,535
Likes: 1,195
Quoting: pharrow
I think it's pretty funny you think guys who aren't drafted aren't prospects.


By definition, a guy who isn't drafted isn't an NHL prospect. There isn't a debate to be had there.
Feb 28 at 1:13
#47
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 16,826
Likes: 4,227
Quoting: Byrr
By definition, a guy who isn't drafted isn't an NHL prospect. There isn't a debate to be had there.


sure thing there, Wright isn't a prospect... if you say so.
Feb 28 at 1:15
#48
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 2,535
Likes: 1,195
Edited Feb 28 at 1:21
Quoting: pharrow
sure thing there, Wright isn't a prospect... if you say so.


Ok, if hes an NHL prospect, which team does he belong to? How is he affiliated to the NHL?

You've managed to put your foot in your mouth and invalidate your own argument. To find 25 NHL prospects arguably better than Robertson, a lot of these guys are further down on lists, you had to reach not one but two years into the future. If that isn't a fitting end to burying your argument, I don't know what is.
Feb 28 at 1:22
#49
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 2,243
Likes: 720
Quoting: hockeyfanatic05
lmao my god you leaf fans are absolutely pathetic. You guys brag every year how amazing your team is, then lose in the playoffs. Cry all offseason about your players, and then the season begins and the bragging starts. Players like crosby has won with less talent. He does it all, tavares doesnt


THIS
hockeyfanatic05 liked this.
Feb 28 at 1:25
#50
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 3,262
Likes: 2,263
Quoting: pharrow
you are way over valuing draft picks and prospects. A. those 2 firsts are 25+ most likely.
Robertson is a nitch player. If he can't make a top 9 somewhere he's dead in the water because he won't be a bottom 6 player. This is why guys are 50/50 players when drafted 1st round. Stop acting like every player coming out the 1st round is some magic success. They aren't. You actually have to DO at the NHL. What it is, is a lot of hope and dream for a guy who is a top player till this day. Yeah he's a bit older but make no doubt he's still a great player. You get 2-3 cup runs out of him easy.
Meanwhile you have to hope you get something out of what's there. None of it is to the same quality level. Fact is TOR future is already on the ice. Everything you just listed you are hoping is just depth. We both know they aren't going to be those guys. There isn't another AM there. No one there to carry a team. You are getting a Carry the team guy, for a whole bunch of take me along with you.

When did I say each and every pick/prospect is going to flourish into a star player (as you said be Crosby level)? I literally said the value difference between Crosby and Tavares. You don’t like Robertson and that’s fine it’s your opinion but what about the other two projects and picks? What don’t you like about Robertson other than his height? Your argument is logically flawed as you put words into others mouth and this isn’t the first time you’ve done this to me this week. You realize the high cost contracts need to be offset by ELCs to be cap compliant. We’re talking about 3 prospects and 2 first rounders in hopes that they can contribute on their ELCs and cost controlled years. Argue that premise and stop putting words into my mouth.
 
Reply
To create a post please Login or Register
Question:
Options:
Add Option
Remove Option
Submit Poll