Forums/Armchair-GM

Rebuild

Created by: Flyers2000
Initial Creation Date: Apr 14, 2021
Published: Apr 14 at 5:19
Team: 2021-22 Philadelphia Flyers
Team Explanation
I honestly have no idea what value these players possess which is why I am posting this. I feel like the teams could make some sense, but main focus is not the fit but rather the value as you can get the same returns from other teams. Also was not sure about Stralman, I only know 1 Florida fan who thinks he has negative value but idk. I'm not necessarily wanting a rebuild, but curious about how it would look, goal would be to bottom out for the next 2-3 drafts and target 4-5 years down the road
Free Agent Signings
RFAYEARSCAP HIT
Hart, Carter2$3,000,000
Kase, David1$950,000
Bunnaman, Connor2$950,000
Patrick, Nolan1$1,000,000
Twarynski, Carsen1$950,000
Rubtsov, German1$950,000
UFAYEARSCAP HIT
Morin, Samuel2$1,000,000
Raanta, Antti2$3,500,000
Trades
PHI
  1. Mysak, Jan
  2. Norlinder, Mattias [Reserve List]
  3. 2022 1st round pick (MTL)
MTL
  1. Giroux, Claude ($3,000,000 retained)
PHI
  1. Neal, James
  2. Samorukov, Dmitri
  3. 2022 2nd round pick (EDM)
EDM
  1. van Riemsdyk, James
PHI
  1. Khusnutdinov, Marat [Reserve List]
  2. 2021 1st round pick (PIT)
  3. 2022 1st round pick (MIN)
MIN
  1. Couturier, Sean
Additional Details:
Extension in place
PHI
  1. Lucic, Milan
  2. Kuznetsov, Yan
  3. 2021 1st round pick (CGY)
  4. 2022 1st round pick (CGY)
  5. 2023 1st round pick (CGY)
CGY
  1. Konecny, Travis
  2. Myers, Philippe
PHI
    ANA
    1. Voracek, Jakub
    2. Ratcliffe, Isaac
    Additional Details:
    Seattle
    PHI
    1. Little, Bryan
    2. Heinola, Ville
    3. 2021 1st round pick (WPG)
    4. 2022 1st round pick (WPG)
    5. 2023 1st round pick (WPG)
    WPG
    1. Provorov, Ivan
    2. Sanheim, Travis [RFA Rights]
    PHI
    1. Strålman, Anton
    2. 2021 2nd round pick (FLA)
    FLA
    1. 2021 4th round pick (PHI)
    Buyouts
    • Ilya Bryzgalov: $0
    Retained Salary Transactions
    • Claude Giroux: $3,000,000 (36.25%)
    DRAFT YEARROUND 1ROUND 2ROUND 3ROUND 4ROUND 5ROUND 6ROUND 7
    2021
    PHI
    PIT
    CGY
    WPG
    PHI
    FLA
    PHI
    VGK
    PHI
    PHI
    2022
    PHI
    MTL
    MIN
    CGY
    WPG
    PHI
    EDM
    PHI
    PHI
    PHI
    PHI
    PHI
    STL
    2023
    PHI
    CGY
    WPG
    PHI
    PHI
    PHI
    PHI
    PHI
    PHI
    ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES BONUSESCAP SPACE
    23$81,500,000$58,381,190$0$1,662,500$23,118,810
    Left WingCenterRight Wing
    PHI
    Laughton, Scott
    $3,000,000
    LW, C
    UFA - 5
    PHI
    Hayes, Kevin
    $7,142,857
    C
    NMC
    UFA - 5
    PHI
    Farabee, Joel
    $925,000
    LW, RW
    RFA - 1
    PHI
    Lindblom, Oskar
    $3,000,000
    LW
    RFA - 2
    PHI
    Frost, Morgan
    $863,333
    C
    RFA - 1
    EDM
    Neal, James
    $5,750,000
    RW, LW
    UFA - 2
    CGY
    Lucic, Milan
    $5,250,000
    LW
    NMC NTC
    UFA - 2
    PHI
    Patrick, Nolan
    $1,000,000
    C, RW
    RFA
    PHI
    Allison, Wade
    $925,000
    RW
    RFA - 1
    PHI
    Kase, David
    $950,000
    RW, LW, C
    RFA
    PHI
    Laczynski, Tanner
    $925,000
    C
    RFA - 1
    PHI
    Aubé-Kubel, Nicolas
    $1,075,000
    RW
    RFA - 1
    Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
    WPG
    Heinola, Ville
    $894,167
    LD
    RFA - 2
    PHI
    Braun, Justin
    $1,800,000
    RD
    UFA - 1
    PHI
    Hart, Carter
    $3,000,000
    G
    RFA
    PHI
    York, Cam
    $880,833
    LD
    RFA - 2
    FLA
    Strålman, Anton
    $5,500,000
    RD
    NTC
    UFA - 1
    Raanta, Antti
    $3,500,000
    G
    UFA
    PHI
    Morin, Samuel
    $1,000,000
    LD, LW
    UFA
    PHI
    Gostisbehere, Shayne
    $4,500,000
    LD
    UFA - 2
    ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
    PHI
    Bunnaman, Connor
    $950,000
    C
    RFA
    WPG
    Little, Bryan
    $5,291,667
    C, RW
    NTC
    UFA - 3
    PHI
    Rubtsov, German
    $950,000
    C
    RFA
    PHI
    Hägg, Robert
    $1,600,000
    LD
    UFA - 1

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    Apr 14 at 5:40
    #1
    Joined: Jul 2020
    Posts: 412
    Likes: 205
    Khusnutdinov is worth a 1st round pick. So we are trading three 1st round picks for Couturier, who is a luxury 2nd line center and not the undisputed 1C we need.
    Apr 14 at 6:52
    #2
    Vegan Commie Hipster
    Joined: Oct 2020
    Posts: 3,200
    Likes: 1,218
    Edited Apr 14 at 6:58
    Quoting: EccE
    Khusnutdinov is worth a 1st round pick. So we are trading three 1st round picks for Couturier, who is a luxury 2nd line center and not the undisputed 1C we need.


    😳 what the actual Dickens

    ✔ Couturier has 242 pts in his last 262 games

    ✔ 2nd in cumulative selke voting in that time

    ✔ 6.4 Corsi % relative (!!) in that span as well

    ✔ SKATR chart is almost entirely dark blue

    ✔ All that despite very tough deployment

    How on earth is that not an undisputed 1C in the NHL?? He's almost the perfect center. He's a "luxury 2nd C" on team Canada and behind McDavid/Matthews and a few other places but that's about it. Such a lazy archaic appraisal. Yeesh.

    Bonus Coots fact:

    Has 1 fewer point since 2017 than Nick Backstrom

    EDIT:

    He's closer to being a HOFer than a luxury 2C
    Tarlam01, mokumboi, LumberJacques and 1 other person liked this.
    Apr 14 at 6:56
    #3
    Vegan Commie Hipster
    Joined: Oct 2020
    Posts: 3,200
    Likes: 1,218
    Quoting: EccE
    Khusnutdinov is worth a 1st round pick. So we are trading three 1st round picks for Couturier, who is a luxury 2nd line center and not the undisputed 1C we need.


    Idk if there's evidence to support Khusu = 1st

    Every part of this comment is just

    Help

    Fddsslkhjf

    I'd be interested to hear the case for that at least
    Tarlam01 liked this.
    Apr 14 at 7:09
    #4
    Joined: Jun 2020
    Posts: 2,555
    Likes: 745
    What is Konecny’s cost? Canes would be interested.
    ForsbergForVezina liked this.
    Apr 14 at 7:22
    #5
    Joined: Jul 2020
    Posts: 412
    Likes: 205
    Quoting: Radu47
    😳 what the actual Dickens

    ✔ Couturier has 242 pts in his last 262 games

    ✔ 2nd in cumulative selke voting in that time

    ✔ 6.4 Corsi % relative (!!) in that span as well

    ✔ SKATR chart is almost entirely dark blue

    ✔ All that despite very tough deployment

    How on earth is that not an undisputed 1C in the NHL?? He's almost the perfect center. He's a "luxury 2nd C" on team Canada and behind McDavid/Matthews and a few other places but that's about it. Such a lazy archaic appraisal. Yeesh.

    Bonus Coots fact:

    Has 1 fewer point since 2017 than Nick Backstrom

    EDIT:

    He's closer to being a HOFer than a luxury 2C


    Couturier is not exactly the kind of C we need. We already have Eriksson Ek as a defensive dynamo. Couturier does score points in an offensively driven team, yes, but I personally do not think he is worth three 1st rounders due to his age, contract situation, and lack of playoff success. Somebody may be willing to pay that price, not me.

    As for Khusnutdinov, he is an 18-year-old 2nd round pick, who has played in the KHL and was centering the 1st line of Russia's U20-team. He has the potential to be a top-6-C in the NHL. He has done nothing but upping his value since being drafted.
    Apr 14 at 8:31
    #6
    Joined: Sep 2020
    Posts: 4,708
    Likes: 1,817
    Flames aren't trading a possible lottery picknto trade Lucix
    Apr 14 at 8:53
    #7
    mokumboi
    Joined: Apr 2019
    Posts: 5,296
    Likes: 1,617
    Dude. I know it has been a disappointing season, but this is a massive overreaction.
    Apr 14 at 9:26
    #8
    Joined: Oct 2020
    Posts: 408
    Likes: 133
    Oilers are listening
    CD282 and Flyers2000 liked this.
    Apr 14 at 9:35
    #9
    Joined: Mar 2017
    Posts: 13,037
    Likes: 3,825
    Quoting: EccE
    Khusnutdinov is worth a 1st round pick. So we are trading three 1st round picks for Couturier, who is a luxury 2nd line center and not the undisputed 1C we need.


    I agree that Khusnutdinov is worth a late 1st, he's a good player and I'd love to have him on my team. I also agree that three 1sts seems a pretty steep price to pay for a 28-year-old Couturier (29 in December) as he'll start aging out. I guess it depends on what the extension looks like, as he's listed as coming with an extension but there's no information on what that is.

    BUT, I can't agree with your sentiment that Couturier isn't a 1C.

    Of course, MIN has options as early as 2022, when some of Malkin, Bergeron, Barkov and Zibanejad will hit the open market. Even a guy like Trochek or Kadri might be an option worth pursuing rather than spending three 1sts.
    Apr 14 at 10:30
    #10
    Hockey Fan13
    Joined: Oct 2019
    Posts: 3,241
    Likes: 2,033
    I see the Coutuier trade has been debated already and let's just say that your valuation in this trade is roughly 3- 1st round picks in the mid to late 20s. I think the price is a bit high given his age but not totally unbelievable if going to a cup ready team. For the Wild he isn't a fit IMO, mostly because his age and what I think will be the Wild cup window just don't line up.
    EccE liked this.
    Apr 14 at 12:25
    #11
    Thread Starter
    Joined: May 2017
    Posts: 295
    Likes: 42
    Quoting: OutCold13
    I see the Coutuier trade has been debated already and let's just say that your valuation in this trade is roughly 3- 1st round picks in the mid to late 20s. I think the price is a bit high given his age but not totally unbelievable if going to a cup ready team. For the Wild he isn't a fit IMO, mostly because his age and what I think will be the Wild cup window just don't line up.


    This is fair, I was honestly looking for a team I thought could be a 1C away from being a contender, but you obviously know more about the ins and outs than I do
    Apr 14 at 12:28
    #12
    Thread Starter
    Joined: May 2017
    Posts: 295
    Likes: 42
    Quoting: ecupirate07
    What is Konecny’s cost? Canes would be interested.


    I want to think he'd be worth around the same as Mantha was. Basiscally made him worth a couple firsts and Kuznetsov in this scenario
    Apr 14 at 12:35
    #13
    Thread Starter
    Joined: May 2017
    Posts: 295
    Likes: 42
    Quoting: mokumboi
    Dude. I know it has been a disappointing season, but this is a massive overreaction.


    Ideally we could salvage all this, but the pieces we need are high end ones and idk how easy it will be to get them, plus the timing is looking bad with Carolina becoming great, the Isles looking better than I gave them credit for, the Pens and Caps having juice in the tank, the Rangers on the rise. Then you obviously have Tampa and Toronto in the Atlantic, Florida looking a lot better than I would have thought, Montreal on the rise, Boston seems to be declining but they still have juice in the tank. Feels like we have to be truly great (even better than 2019/20) if we want to come out of the East and idk how easy it will be to do that in the offseason. The East is peaking, and with some of the high end talents in the 2022 and 2023 drafts, maybe now is the time to call it quits for 2-3 seasons in hopes of getting that high end talent and building for 4-5 years down the line
    Apr 14 at 12:37
    #14
    Thread Starter
    Joined: May 2017
    Posts: 295
    Likes: 42
    Quoting: Gmonwy
    Flames aren't trading a possible lottery picknto trade Lucix


    The assets were more for Konecny and Myers than Lucic. While he does have negative value, he was really just there for cap reasons. Now whether you think Konecny and Myers are worth those assets is a whole other story
    Apr 14 at 12:38
    #15
    Joined: Sep 2020
    Posts: 4,708
    Likes: 1,817
    Edited Apr 14 at 12:45
    Quoting: Flyers2000
    The assets were more for Konecny and Myers than Lucic. While he does have negative value, he was really just there for cap reasons. Now whether you think Konecny and Myers are worth those assets is a whole other story


    Okay still your not getting it. We may be going into a rebuild soon and we need as many picks as possible
    Apr 14 at 1:00
    #16
    Thread Starter
    Joined: May 2017
    Posts: 295
    Likes: 42
    Quoting: Gmonwy
    Okay still your not getting it. We may be going into a rebuild soon and we need as many picks as possible


    It's why I said the main focus was the value and not the fit.. Idk if Calgary wants to salvage what's left or their core or tear it down, if they want to tear it down, doesn't change much from the Flyers perspective, just change Calgary to another team who can use a young top line forward and potential top 4 RHD and then the same value questions remain
    Apr 14 at 1:37
    #17
    Joined: Jun 2020
    Posts: 2,555
    Likes: 745
    Quoting: Flyers2000
    I want to think he'd be worth around the same as Mantha was. Basiscally made him worth a couple firsts and Kuznetsov in this scenario


    so a 2nd and another roster forward?
    Apr 14 at 2:16
    #18
    Thread Starter
    Joined: May 2017
    Posts: 295
    Likes: 42
    Quoting: ecupirate07
    so a 2nd and another roster forward?


    Depending on who that forward is, possibly, but if the Flyers were to rebuild, I rather have picks than the forward
     
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