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Prospect Discussion Thread

Dec. 8, 2021 at 10:08 p.m.
#451
Speak of the Devil
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Quoting: BeterChiarelli
Room for some common-sense judgement but it's a pretty standard notion.


I like this idea
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Dec. 8, 2021 at 10:46 p.m.
#452
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Quoting: capsfan2121
Protas is a b prospect right now. He was able to make the first line and first pp which is hard to do under lav. This is a great idea with the pyramid


Protas will most definitely be moved out of everyone else but he’ll most likely end up in C, B is for 1st liners and i don’t think Protas has that potential ( definitely open though )

Quoting: Devil1122
Great idea
But I have a suggestion and a question
What is your definition of a prospect? Under 25 games played?
And a suggestion is to separate the players even more (by adding more tiers). Like William Eklund should not be on the same tier as Zac Jones


I’m just using what we based it on so pretty much, you have to be 23 or under and have played less than 41 NHL games ( open for suggestion though )

Quoting: Alfie11
Can this definition, an explanation on the different tiers, and the google sheet be added to the original post of this thread A_Habs_fan?

Also from a cursory glance, Eklund and Power should be A tier, probably McTavish, Guenther, and Seider/Byram/Raymond (if they still count) as well. I'm not sure if we're defining A tier as legitimate superstars or very likely top line/pair guys, if it's the second you could bump up Caufield and Edvinsson. I'd move Wallstedt down as well, I don't really think any goalie should be A tier, especially not in the year just after getting drafted, and being ranked above literally all 19 guys selected ahead of him, including another goalie. A few C tier prospects should be bumped up to B tier (Neighbours, Bordeleau, Pinto although I don't think he should count at all anymore tbh, Perreault, Lucius, Heinola). Several B tier prospects should be moved down (for example Ceulemans [could go either way on him though tbh], Khusnutdinov, Primeau, Stankoven, and Gunler). And Krebs is listed under Vegas still lol


I’m still not done each team, the article that the original tiers per team were based off had too many names and had players on the wrong team, of course, as the article that i based it off of was 1 person’s opinion, I’m expecting many changes to come soon
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Dec. 8, 2021 at 10:47 p.m.
#453
Tintin over 1122
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Quoting: A_Habs_fan
Protas will most definitely be moved out of everyone else but he’ll most likely end up in C, B is for 1st liners and i don’t think Protas has that potential ( definitely open though )



I’m just using what we based it on so pretty much, you have to be 23 or under and have played less than 41 NHL games ( open for suggestion though )



I’m still not done each team, the article that the original tiers per team were based off had too many names and had players on the wrong team, of course, as the article that i based it off of was 1 person’s opinion, I’m expecting many changes to come soon


Protas played on the 1st line and he was producing well. Again I like this idea
Dec. 8, 2021 at 11:00 p.m.
#454
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Quoting: A_Habs_fan
Protas will most definitely be moved out of everyone else but he’ll most likely end up in C, B is for 1st liners and i don’t think Protas has that potential ( definitely open though )


I’m just using what we based it on so pretty much, you have to be 23 or under and have played less than 41 NHL games ( open for suggestion though )



I’m still not done each team, the article that the original tiers per team were based off had too many names and had players on the wrong team, of course, as the article that i based it off of was 1 person’s opinion, I’m expecting many changes to come soon


These would be my tiers and rankings for the Devils
Tier 1 (Top line players): Holtz, Hughes, Mercer
Tier 2 (Top 6F/Top 4D): Foote, Bahl, Mukhmadullin, Walsh
Tier 3 (Middle 6F/bottom 4D): Stillman, Gritsyu, Salminen, Daws, Schmid
Tier 4 (bottom 6F/3rd pair): Vukojevic, Okhotyuk, Clarke, Talvitie, Edwards, McCarthy, Moynihan
Tier 5 (Fringe NHL players): Zetterlund, White, Vilen, Pasic, Pakkila, Misyul
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Dec. 8, 2021 at 11:34 p.m.
#455
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anybody know when Germany is gonna release their select camp roster just wondering because I am hoping that the Oilers 2021 3rd pick 90th overall Luca Munzenberger can make the team because I really don't want Bourgault to be the only Oilers prospect in a world juniors that is going to be held to in Edmonton
Dec. 8, 2021 at 11:49 p.m.
#456
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Quoting: oilersguy
anybody know when Germany is gonna release their select camp roster just wondering because I am hoping that the Oilers 2021 3rd pick 90th overall Luca Munzenberger can make the team because I really don't want Bourgault to be the only Oilers prospect in a world juniors that is going to be held to in Edmonton

They did, and he’s on the team.
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Dec. 8, 2021 at 11:54 p.m.
#457
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Quoting: Alfie11
They did, and he’s on the team.


ok great thanks
Dec. 9, 2021 at 12:40 a.m.
#458
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Quoting: Alfie11
Can this definition, an explanation on the different tiers, and the google sheet be added to the original post of this thread A_Habs_fan?

Also from a cursory glance, Eklund and Power should be A tier, probably McTavish, Guenther, and Seider/Byram/Raymond (if they still count) as well. I'm not sure if we're defining A tier as legitimate superstars or very likely top line/pair guys, if it's the second you could bump up Caufield and Edvinsson. I'd move Wallstedt down as well, I don't really think any goalie should be A tier, especially not in the year just after getting drafted, and being ranked above literally all 19 guys selected ahead of him, including another goalie. A few C tier prospects should be bumped up to B tier (Neighbours, Bordeleau, Pinto although I don't think he should count at all anymore tbh, Perreault, Lucius, Heinola). Several B tier prospects should be moved down (for example Ceulemans [could go either way on him though tbh], Khusnutdinov, Primeau, Stankoven, and Gunler). And Krebs is listed under Vegas still lol


A is Matthews McDavid Mackinnon Draisaitl level...we probably don't have a prospect at that level right now. For their Position Power is probably the #1 Prospect and I'd say he's more of a top line superstar than a franchise LD. He is trending closer and closer to franchise, but him scoring alot in college could partially be because of the stacked lineup Michigan has.
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Dec. 9, 2021 at 2:08 a.m.
#459
Ex Nucks fan
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Quoting: BeterChiarelli
Wrong thread Jimbo.[/quote

Ok Beter
Dec. 9, 2021 at 5:02 a.m.
#460
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Quoting: BuFfaLOFaN
A is Matthews McDavid Mackinnon Draisaitl level...we probably don't have a prospect at that level right now. For their Position Power is probably the #1 Prospect and I'd say he's more of a top line superstar than a franchise LD. He is trending closer and closer to franchise, but him scoring alot in college could partially be because of the stacked lineup Michigan has.

I mean I think limiting it to that much doesn’t really serve a functional purpose, that’s essentially what the first overall pick designation is for. We realistically get 0-2 players of that calibre per draft, and they generally jump straight to the NHL. Like by that criteria we haven’t had any A Tier player from the 2017-2021 drafts except for maybe Dahlin, and then we’ll get Wright, then Bedard+Michkov, but like having 1 guy there, or 0 guys most of the time, in the entire league for like the 2 months between the draft and the season starting seems kinda pointless. Like maybe have an A* for the 1 truly great guy we get every couple years, but limiting it that much in general seems dumb. Also Draisaitl wasn’t even considered in that tier when he was drafted, that’s why he went 3rd overall and not 1st (and iirc he was ranked behind both Sams? Might be wrong but still). I think top line/pair locks should be A Tier for that reason, because it’s still only like maybe 5-7 guys per draft max, so there’s never gonna be more than ~10-15 total still in the prospect pool of the entire league at any given time, which is still super rare (1 for every 2 or 3 teams).
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Dec. 9, 2021 at 7:19 a.m.
#461
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So just for clarification the rules to be considered a prospect based on what the original rules we're and what BeterChiarelli proposed we use:
The prospect must be under 23 as of January 1st 2021 ( 25 for goalies ) and not a full-time NHLer

And the rules for the tiers:
A tier: Elite players
B tier: 1st liners, 1st pair, starting goalies
C tier: 2nd liners, 2nd pair, fringe goalies
D: tier: bottom 6, bottom pair, backup, longshots and projects
EE tier: probably won't do anything, small to no shot of being an NHLer
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Dec. 9, 2021 at 7:20 a.m.
#462
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Quoting: A_Habs_fan
So just for clarification the rules to be considered a prospect based on what the original rules we're and what BeterChiarelli proposed we use:
The prospect must be under 23 as of January 1st 2021 ( 25 for goalies ) and not a full-time NHLer

And the rules for the tiers:
A tier: Elite players
B tier: 1st liners, 1st pair, starting goalies
C tier: 2nd liners, 2nd pair, fringe goalies
D: tier: bottom 6, bottom pair, backup, longshots and projects
EE tier: probably won't do anything, small to no shot of being an NHLer


And of course, please use the comment/suggestion page to propose changes to the sheet/rules, tier changes for prospects or prospects that aren't listed but eligible
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Dec. 9, 2021 at 8:34 a.m.
#463
CELEBRINI IS A SHARK
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Edited Dec. 9, 2021 at 8:40 a.m.
I’m cheering for Canada, want USA to lose (or win gold not vs Canada (for Bordeleau)).

But Sweden (my boy Eklund) and Finland are my favourites for the tourney. Idk why but those are some solid teams and they usually come together quite well on ice. I’m cheering for Canada and hope they win but I want to see Eklund or Bordeleau win gold.

But; man are Finland / Sweden are gonna be scary.
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Dec. 9, 2021 at 8:44 a.m.
#464
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Mason McTavish (top prospect, Canada) may be suspended for a hit to the head in the OHL last night and OHL suspensions CARRY OVER TO the World Juniors.

So if McTavish is handed a heavy suspension Canada could miss McTavish. Will link a video.
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Dec. 9, 2021 at 8:55 a.m.
#465
CELEBRINI IS A SHARK
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Dec. 9, 2021 at 8:59 a.m.
#466
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Quoting: yikes



I don't think he'll a suspension heavy enough for him to miss World Juniors time, but that is a bad look for him. I already know some people will say "keep your head up" but Mctavish has to realize the player is in a vulnerable position and had plenty of time not to try and make that kind of hit.
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Dec. 9, 2021 at 9:16 a.m.
#467
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Quoting: yikes


This was the slowest hit I've seen in my life, like I get sometimes not having enough time to react (still at fault but it's kinda understandable) but this was like a tired glide (he stopped skating above the circles) into an elbow to the head. Like if Johnston had been set (not victim blaming, I understand he was fighting for the puck which is why he wasn't set) it would have been super easy to knock MM on his ass with a little reverse hit. Honestly just lazy by McTavish. Probably not a 6 game suspension though, mainly due to the speed and apparent lack of injury.
Dec. 9, 2021 at 10:06 a.m.
#468
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I have added an updates page to the Prospect Pyramid sheet so you can keep up to date on what I'm doing and it might also have all the tier changes
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Dec. 9, 2021 at 10:25 a.m.
#469
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Quoting: Alfie11
This was the slowest hit I've seen in my life, like I get sometimes not having enough time to react (still at fault but it's kinda understandable) but this was like a tired glide (he stopped skating above the circles) into an elbow to the head. Like if Johnston had been set (not victim blaming, I understand he was fighting for the puck which is why he wasn't set) it would have been super easy to knock MM on his ass with a little reverse hit. Honestly just lazy by McTavish. Probably not a 6 game suspension though, mainly due to the speed and apparent lack of injury.


Quoting: NoVaSpartan
I don't think he'll a suspension heavy enough for him to miss World Juniors time, but that is a bad look for him. I already know some people will say "keep your head up" but Mctavish has to realize the player is in a vulnerable position and had plenty of time not to try and make that kind of hit.


I don’t have the full info, but I believe the hit was retaliatory or there was something that happened earlier. I just feel like I heard or read it but I’m not sure (working now so just completely forgot everything from 7am hockey reading):
Dec. 9, 2021 at 10:30 a.m.
#470
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Quoting: yikes
I don’t have the full info, but I believe the hit was retaliatory or there was something that happened earlier. I just feel like I heard or read it but I’m not sure (working now so just completely forgot everything from 7am hockey reading):


I'm not familiar with how the OHL handles suspensions, would he be getting more for a retaliatory hit?
Dec. 9, 2021 at 11:41 a.m.
#471
Ovchinnikov 137
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With the preliminary rosters now set, the CAR have ten prospects on the initial rosters:
Scott Morrow (USA) 2nd round pick
Aleksi Heimosalmi (FIN) 2nd round pick
Ville Koivunen (FIN) 2nd round pick
Nikita Guslistov (RUS) 7th round pick
Vasily Ponomarev (RUS) 2nd round pick
Alexander Pashin (RUS) 7th round pick
Nikita Quapp (GER) 6th round pick
Joel Nystrom (SWE) 7th round pick
Zion Nybeck (SWE) 4th round pick
Ronan Seeley (CAN) 7th round pick

It can always be up for debate on who has the best prospect pool, IMO it is CAR, but for me, there is no arguing they have the deepest prospect pool in the NHL.
Dec. 9, 2021 at 1:42 p.m.
#472
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Quoting: MatthewsFan
With the preliminary rosters now set, the CAR have ten prospects on the initial rosters:
Scott Morrow (USA) 2nd round pick
Aleksi Heimosalmi (FIN) 2nd round pick
Ville Koivunen (FIN) 2nd round pick
Nikita Guslistov (RUS) 7th round pick
Vasily Ponomarev (RUS) 2nd round pick
Alexander Pashin (RUS) 7th round pick
Nikita Quapp (GER) 6th round pick
Joel Nystrom (SWE) 7th round pick
Zion Nybeck (SWE) 4th round pick
Ronan Seeley (CAN) 7th round pick

It can always be up for debate on who has the best prospect pool, IMO it is CAR, but for me, there is no arguing they have the deepest prospect pool in the NHL.


How many for Buffalo?
Dec. 9, 2021 at 1:55 p.m.
#473
Ovchinnikov 137
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Edited Dec. 9, 2021 at 2:01 p.m.
Quoting: BuFfaLOFaN
How many for Buffalo?


Owen Power (CAN)
Isak Rosen (SWE)
Jakub Konecny (CZE)

That I know of. I look and edit if I see any others

Edit:
Nikita Novikov (RUS)
Dec. 9, 2021 at 2:16 p.m.
#474
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Quoting: MatthewsFan
With the preliminary rosters now set, the CAR have ten prospects on the initial rosters:
Scott Morrow (USA) 2nd round pick
Aleksi Heimosalmi (FIN) 2nd round pick
Ville Koivunen (FIN) 2nd round pick
Nikita Guslistov (RUS) 7th round pick
Vasily Ponomarev (RUS) 2nd round pick
Alexander Pashin (RUS) 7th round pick
Nikita Quapp (GER) 6th round pick
Joel Nystrom (SWE) 7th round pick
Zion Nybeck (SWE) 4th round pick
Ronan Seeley (CAN) 7th round pick

It can always be up for debate on who has the best prospect pool, IMO it is CAR, but for me, there is no arguing they have the deepest prospect pool in the NHL.


Lets compare buffalo and carolina's prospects top down...
Dec. 9, 2021 at 2:18 p.m.
#475
Ovchinnikov 137
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Quoting: BuFfaLOFaN
Lets compare buffalo and carolina's prospects top down...


Not today, but sure
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