Given the inter-divisional tax, I genuinely don't see an outcome where the Stars make this deal without Bourque going back to Chicago. Gurianov makes sense, Kiviranta doesn't. Harley isn't a substantial enough piece imo to make this return go unless Chicago really doesn't find the market it wants for Kane.

As much as the deal is fair value for both teams, I gotta think Dallas declines Harley is going to be a huge part of the defense not only this year but years to come with the departure of Klingberg. I think Dellandrea makes more sense for Dallas, tho would understand if Chicago says no

Agree for the most part. I think any Dallas/Chicago deal around Kane likely goes Bourque/Gurianov/Faksa and some sort of conditional 2nd that turns into a 1st based on either playoff performance or Kane re-signing. Maybe something like

Bourque
Gurianov
Faksa
2024 2nd

2nd becomes a 1st in 2024 if either A. Dallas makes the WCF or B. Kane re-signs

I’m just very reluctant to give up Bourque AND the 1st if there’s no immediate success or Kane past the 2022-23 season. I’d do. Bourque and the 2nd or a 1st and a prospect who will still translate as an NHLer but not as high of a ceiling like a Dellandrea, or Stranges

Delly prolly doesn’t get it done. But 💯 agree Harley can’t be traded after letting Klinger walk

Absolutely. I really think we’re all underestimating how great a pair of Harley-Miller is gonna be this year. I think it’s gonna surprise a lot of people and the defense will be fine as is. Is there room for improvement? Absolutely. But I don’t think it’ll be as bad as we all think

If Miller is healthy I don’t think we will miss Klinger at all 5v5. I worry about the power play tho. On paper we are a much better team 5v5. DeBoer seems to have a good grasp on how to put players into positions to succeed and understands the importance of chemistry. Lots to be excited about. I don’t think we had a single PP goal in the Calgary series so maybe the thought process was it can’t get any worse lol

If Faksa is going back I don't understand how you think that pick can be conditional: you're asking the Blackhawks to take on approximately $8M on top of the 50% retention they're going to need to include to move Kane anywhere. OP shows that Faksa doesn't need to be included to make the cap work. Getting out from a relatively unattractive contract in order to make room for blossoming rookies will cost assets. From the Chicago POV, how do you explain the optics of not getting a top prospect AND a first-round pick for one of the most prolific hockey players of the modern age? He still produces at an elite clip.

I think our goalposts here are somewhere between the Giroux trade and the Eichel trade, and admittedly, Chicago probably swings a little bit closer to the Eichel return because of the echelon of player that Kane is. Depending on your mileage of Gurianov vs Tuch and Bourque vs Krebs in terms of quality, assuming dumping Faksa is a must, and consideration to the inter-divisional tax, I wouldn't be surprised to see Kane fetch an identical return for Pat Kane that Eichel got from Vegas.

Bourque
Faksa
Gurianov
2023 1st
Some conditional 2024 pick

EDIT: also, this is in the context of my being convinced Edmonton pushes very hard for Kane. Something around Barrie, Savoie/Petrov, and two first round picks.

Very good point. With Heiskanen on one PP and Harley on the other I think they’ll be fine there. Even Miller can jump on the PP cause he’s got a bomb of a shot

You make some very good points. Maybe it’s just I value Bourque super highly and maybe more than his actual worth. I would just hope there is some chance that Kane would re-sign and I think he would. A lot of big name players that have come to Dallas have not only said plenty of great things but have also re-signed. Spezza/Pavelski/etc. I think there would be a good chance he re-signs. If the bidding war plays out like you suggest I think I’d make the deal

Just walk both to UFA. Brutal.

Which is very understandable given the way Bourque was on pace for 100 assists in his final year of Junior: he's difficult to project but I think assuming anything other than a #3C or playmaking top-six RW right now is dangerous. I did a deep-dive into Bourque's production alongside Bourgault and Nadeau back in the second prospect discussion thread. Bourque is probably not driving a line at the professional level and isn't apt to recreate his gaudy numbers at either the AHL or NHL levels without a bonafide triggerman as his year-over-year growth in production was driven by changes in linemates more than his natural progression.

I would think Kane more apt to sign in Dallas than in Edmonton but I genuinely believe he's signing (and retiring) back home in Buffalo.

I think your point of not including a first is important. The Debrincat trade showed how important first round picks are to Davidson. Kane is already getting a solid prospect back, when you factor in some of the excellent points you made, in division trade, retention and taking Faska back, that prospect becomes A+. I don’t think Dallas has to include Gurianov but the hawks would take him if he’s included/needed for cap reasons. Main parts of a Kane trade for every team is a 2023 first and prospect. Bidding war goes from there.

Yeah I think if Gurianov is included it's an absolute must due to cap consequences, and I'd expect Chicago to be sending more than just Kane back to Dallas. Mid-pick, maybe a B-prospect?

I think my expectation is like a high end 2nd line centre and am I being overly optimistic? Sure. But I kind of think like a 60 point player, maybe he peaks at 70 if he has some insane year. But I think what you’re saying is likely more accurate

Until Bourque actually reaches that point, all we have to go off of is the precedent set by prospects and players that have come before. If even-strength goal scoring is the leading indicator for NHL success, the outlook on Bourque isn't phenomenal. It's by no means gospel, and I don't think you're inherently wrong to leave the door open on that being his ceiling, but Dallas has better center players/prospects that will either push Bourque to the third line or to the wing.

Agreed. Other pieces would go back to Dallas in this scenario. Chicago would be 100% willing to send a mid pick/B prospect back if it gets them Bourque imo. Chicago might even be looking for cap dumps as part of the trade as they have the cap space and it improves the return.

Bourque and Guri will make sweet music together. They got a little time together last year in the preseason and it was fun to watch

I'd ink Robo with a Tkachuk type 3 x 7 deal and sign Otter with a 6 x 5,5 deal or so. Kane would have to come with double retention so we need to find a team to do that with. Given Kane comes from same division this won't work without at least one top prospect going other way - not that I believe he'd actually waive to come to Dallas although that'd be sick.

I'd suggest a 3-way deal as such


- Denis Gurianov
- Ty Dellandrea
- Radek Faksa
- Artem Grushnikov
- 2023 1st round pick (DAL)
- 2024 2nd round pick (DAL)

(Note: if Chicago is insistent in including one of the top3 prospects in this trade, then we replace Dellandrea with Bourque, drop the 2024 second rd pick, and make the 2023 1st round into a conditional 2023 2nd round pick that turns into a 2023 1st if DAL reaches the conference finals.)


- Anton Khudobin
- 2025 2nd round pick (DAL)
- 2024 3rd round pick (DAL)
- retains $2,625,000 of Patrick Kane's cap hit, basically half of the half


- Patrick Kane ($5,250,000 retained by CHI, $2,625,000 retained by ANA)
- Jujhar Khaira (to even out the contracts)

Wow, this thread exploded. I'll try to address as many of the points people made as I can:

1) I feel like Kiviranta is an unappreciated piece-he (like Gurianov) was underused in the Bowness era in Dallas, and he's shown flashes of being a consistent 2nd/3rd liner. Additionally, I'm quite high on Harley-he has a chance to be a top 4 puck-moving blue-liner if his ceiling pans out IMO. Ergo, if you include all 3 of Gurianov/Kiviranta/Harley PLUS the 1st PLUS a '24 2nd, I think Chicago would benefit quite well from this deal.

2) In fact, as someone alluded to earlier, the team I can actually see declining this deal more is Dallas. With the departue of Klingberg, Harley might very well see top 4 ice time this year. Given that, I think the Stars might be hesitant to move him, especially since Kane is a rental for all intents and purposes.

3) But if you swap in Dellandrea for Harley, CHI has to say no-that's not enough for Patrick Kane. Again, it may be a one year rental, but it's PATRICK KANE. Put Harley in with Gurianov and Kiviranta plus the picks, and that tips the scales for CHI.

4) If this deal actually was to be done, I would say it's a pretty fair trade-obviously would depend on how Gurianov, Kiviranta and Harley panned out for CHI, but they get several young pieces for the rebuild, and the Stars get an incredible boost of offense to pair with Robo and Hintz, allowing them to pair Pavs with Seguin and Benn, and put Marchment on the 3rd line where he fits best.

At some point in time, somebody on this godforsaken website will learn that players are not traded for what they could be, but for what they are. Someone has to. That'll be the day.

Kiviranta is a bottom-six forward until he proves otherwise. He's not bringing any value to the Blackhawks other than being a live body to put into an NHL lineup, and I don't think he's really supplanting Raddysh or Katchouk as the Hawks were internally high on both men. I'm fine with the Stars wanting to bank on Harley given their circumstances, but Chicago dealing Kane on the hopes that Harley is something close to his ceiling is just dealing in bad faith. A-prospect, first round pick, quality roster player. The Eichel deal is closer in blueprint than the Giroux deal.

@Justaboss maybe gets close with a quanitity > quality deal but ultimately the Blackhawks are going to ask for the moon, especially if there's supplemental cap going back to the Windy City.

A MODERATOR ripping on the website itself?! Demote him, @Banks! (I kid, I kid)

I agree in theory that players should be dealt for what they are. But we constantly see GM's deal for/sign players based on what they could be (did you see Don Waddell's statement after extending Bear? Copy this link: https://www.prohockeyrumors.com/2022/07/carolina-hurricanes-re-sign-ethan-bear.html )

Throw in Kyle Davidson's record so far as GM, and I think this deal becomes more realistic (not necessarily realistic in and of itself, just closer).

Also, not to go off topic, but whenever I hear the phrase "That'll be the day", I think of The Searchers.

Bear's a third-pairing defenceman being paid like an RFA, third-pairing defenceman would have been via arbitration. What's your point? An overwhelming majority of GMs making moves based on potential and not concrete proof tend to get fired more than the ones who don't. May I interest you in the art gallery that is Peter Chiarelli's tenure in Edmonton?

Worst-case scenario (which is really a best-case scenario given this community as a whole) you offer a bit much, avoid pissing off Blackhawks fans, and the actual deal gets done and comes in under par.

1) The Dallas rumor that one media guy started a firestorm with was shot down by multiple Hawks insiders. Kane has been clear that he wants to see how the season goes, translation "are there any teams I would like to play for in running for the cup". In other words, he's not waiving for a team that might miss the playoffs or would be a 1st round exit.

2) Cap hits are prorated against games played so Kane's cap hit would be substantially less the closer to the TDL

3) Kane will probably give the Hawks 2 or 3 teams he will waive for to not pigeonhole the Hawks into only 1 team. Dallas could be in the mix.

4) Davidson got a horrible return on Cat no doubt, but he also did alright on Dach (who the Hawks management soured on due to work ethic), and did great on Hagel. Korchinski is a sleeper...high risk high reward where they took him in the draft. Nazar could end up being one of the best picks in the draft. Ultimately Davidson has done okay during the offseason also considering picking up Domi and AA for cheap as TDL bait.

5) Any trade with Kane is going to likely include a very good prospect/young player and a 1st. Kane sells too many tickets and merchandising for the Hawks to let him go for anything less, even if he's only a Hawk one more season. The optics would be bad. Kane also lives year round in Chicago with his gf and kid (she has a fashion business there), his group of friends (I know one of them) are in Chicago, his trainers are there, and he does more then any player with the organization and legacy players, and has many times said he wants to work with the organization after retirement. For those reasons, I don't see Kane leaving unless it's a chance to win a cup and if the Hawks land Bedard (20% chance likely), i could also see Kane wanting to resign in Chicago help groom him while also breaking all the Hawks long standing records in points and goals which he has also said is important to him.

6) What some don't know about Kane is he is an absolute student of the game. He knows the game as good or better then anyone. He will know if his abilities would be a great fit for a team and if it will translate into a chance to win another ring. For that reason, I think he keeps a close eye watching other teams and makes a decision around Dec/Jan timeframe.

Fair point in that regard (you seem a bit bitter about Chiarelli's time with the Oilers, I wonder why ).

I forgot to mention that seeing as how Kane is a rental I don't expect the market value for him to be as high as CHI wants it to be, and seeing as how they'll want to get at least something for him, they'll settle for a bit less than they set out to get. But hey, ultimately, who knows.

On #1: Yes, I saw the Mark Lazerus tweet saying nothing's actually going on. I'm just having fun theorizing about it anyways.

On #3: Yes, definitely possible. But who knows.

On #4: Agreed that he did a terrific job on Hagel-fleeced the Lightning. But I think the Korchinski pick was too high, and the Debrincat trade was horrible. Agreed on the Nazar pick-very good selection.