If another team retains another 50%, it would be Colorado sending the 4th to that team, not Chicago. Chicago isn't going to pay another team to help them facilitate a trade. The onus is on Colorado

Toews has a NMC, if he only waives for one team, they might not have a choice

Youre a sabres fan, you should know that how Hall forced his way to Boston, you had to take what you could get

You can think if it as Toews 50% retained + 4th for Olausson + 2nd, then COL flips that 4th to another team for the extra retention. Its the same difference

I hope not.

Well that's not the way this post made it seem, so I felt I should comment.



I guess that's a possibility, one I didn't think of. Hey we got Kisakov from that deal, he's looking pretty promising. And legends say Bjorky loves the press box so much he decorates it for the holidays

You would assume toews works with the hawks with his NMC but history isnt on their side...Hall, Giroux, the last 2 big names moved at TDLs with NMC would only waive for one team.

Every situation is different. I find it very hard to believe that Toews is going to play hardball with the Hawks. He'll probably say I'd like to go to "X" team and then Kyle Davidson will go out publicly and say something different. That Toews is willing to go to a few teams in order to create a market even if there isn't one. Kyle Davidson has already shown last TDL that if you don't give him value...he just won't trade you away. Strome, DeHaan, Kubalik...all stayed.

Nope. Toews isn’t the answer, I mean unless you want a guy specifically for when your pk completely breaks down and he can shoot at an open net. Dude is spent.

He was pretty solid last night even if you dont want to give him credit for his PPG. Last year he had good underlying numbers at even strength and he passed the eye test for me yesterday, what makes you think hes spent?

isnt that a bad thing....he didnt get the value for them then he let them all walk for nothing a few months later?

Hard to know with 100% certainty. Would a 5th for DeHaan be better than having a current D prospect play next to a vet?

I think Toews will get a 1st rounder...so KD can't mess around with that, but if Chiarot can get a 1st...

I never believe in the if a team makes a bad trade (1st for Chiarot) that sets the market. Im sure Toews can net a 1st...but a 2023 1st is worth a lot. I dont think teams are going to be willing to move those even cup contenders.

We'll see. I'm not saying your wrong. It may be that the Hawks pay for the double retention vs the team acquiring Toews. Maybe the 1st is a "MAF" 1st where it's a 2nd, but conditions are attached to get to a 1st.

I can see a conditional 1st for Toews. Cup finals type of condition. If a team gets there with him, they wont care

He is spent. His defensive numbers have gotten progressively worse and his point total last year was abysmal even for a guy making half of what he makes. His play and regression are a significant reason why CHI is where they are and why they dumped a 2 time 40 goal scorer. There will be significantly better options available than his name.

His defensive numbers were bad in 18-19 and 19-20, not last year, maybe he drops off this season but I think last year's numbers are a far better estimate of how he will perform than data from 3 seasons ago. He missed 20-21 but his defense was about average in 21-22 (+0.01 RelTM xGA/60 and 57th percentile in EV Defensive WAR/60) while he was still driving offense despite not putting up high point totals (I think scoring over 0.5P/GP on the 6th worst team is pretty decent, especially considering his linemates)


I think his performance last season is of similar quality to Kadri's the season before the Avs traded for him. Toews had better defensive numbers but lower production than Kadri while playing for a worse team:



Who cares about his cap hit - its a 1 year rental with double retention

Imo its kinda unfair to say its Toews fault that CHI is bad when he was one of their best players last season. CHI went all in during their cup window and now they are rebuilding, its a natural cycle for teams to go through. I think its a similar situation to both Jeff Carter and Eric Staal:

Staal was part of the Canes core when they won in 2006, then as the core aged and the team got worse his production dropped, then he was moved to MIN where he found success again
Carter was part of the Kings core when they won in 2012 and 2014, then as the core aged and the team got worse his production dropped, then he was moved to PIT where he found success again
Toews was part of the Hawks core when they won in 2010, 2013, and 2015, then as the core aged and the team got worse his production dropped, then ______________________________________________

He’s 35 Kadri was what 28, you’re trying to draw correlations that just don’t make sense. Dude is spent. One of the guys that covers the Blackhawks for CHGO said the same thing. Everybody gets caught up in what he did half a decade ago, but that’s to bad. It entirely fair to call him and his play out for the decline of the Hawks, the previous regime made moves like the Jones trade because they thought he wasn’t done, they were wrong.

You keep saying hes spent but havent really given anything to back it up except for "a guy who covers the blackhawks said so" and "he was bad defensively 3 years ago". What about all the underlying numbers from last year that suggest otherwise? If anything youre the one getting caught up in old data talking about how he was bad defensively, Im using data from 21-22, the most recent data available, and it shows that he was pretty solid

I used Kadri as a comparable purely from a performance standpoint. In this scenario Toews is a 1 year rental so who cares how old he is, its not like the Avs are gonna keep him long term

I disagree on the idea that poor CHI management decisions is Toews' fault, but whatever, thats not really my main point here

Kubalik's qualifying number and arbitration rights made him way to risky for anyone to own his RFA rights. Strome's arbitration rights was the same thing. That is why both went to FA and were quickly picked up...Kubs for half his QO.

You're looking at a stat sheet without context and therein lies your problem. It is widely known that Toews struggled hard to get back to form the first part of last season. If you look at his numbers in the first 3rd of the season versus last 3rd of the season they were two entirely different players. To be expected after missing a full season with long covid immunity issues and spending a year in bed. He played well the last 3rd of last season and showed last night he's where he should be. The pace in which he was playing the last 3rd of the season last year, puts him on pace for 55+ points and even multiple scouts interviewed by The Athletic in a series of NHL player questions were asked "does Toews score over 50 points this year" and every single one said yes. Why? Because they understand the context of last year and saw what those that watched him closely saw in the last 3rd of the season after getting his legs back under him.

Do I think Toews is a 2C on a championship team? No, but he's a very good 3C on a championship team and that makes him worth a late 1st or very close to it.

As the other poster responded to you said, if you want to say "hes spent" with objectivity, I'm sure everyone is all ears to an objective analysis. But to have pro scouts from teams outside of the Hawks, his underlying numbers and points in the last 3rd all objectively disagree with you suggests you're simply offering a subjective opinion, one without an objective basis to substantiate it on....unless you think he will get long covid again in the next month.

there was interest though and every other team knew hawks weren't QOing them, even minimal assets back is better than nothing

Too much risk which is why teams didn't make a move and opted to wait until FA because they new the Hawks weren't QOing them and thus why take on the risk of their RFA given the QO, and Arbitration rights? Those go away at FA.

I dont think there is any risk. Guys would be getting them for playoff runs, they dont have to QO them either. You are saying teams would take them for 3rd 4th round picks last playoffs?

Thats why it was poor asset management, if there was no plans to keep them with their QO, get whatever you can for them,

They shopped them, but nobody was interested in giving much of anything for them from the beat writers, that is was better our new GM simply walked away from any potential deals that might have been say a 6th or 7th rounder simply to set the tone in the way in which he would be dealing with these same GMs moving forward.

It's easy to sit on the sidelines and claim poor asset management without being there.

Spent, decreasing possession metrics year over 5v5 cf 56, 50.4, 49.5, 48.1, he hit the proverbial cliff in points over the last 3 years going 80,60, 37, pts/60 down the last three years, shots per game down each of the last 3 years, he has been a -xGD 4 of the last 5 years, even his TOI has dropped each of the last 3 years. You refuse to acknowledge his regression is a large reason why the Hawks have regressed. But you do you bro, a guy at 50% retained giving you Compher level production isn’t worth the hassle much less giving up one of the top prospects.