Habs fans don't need to say Hoffman is better.... because he's simply in the lineup more regularly than Mantha..... less good and playing vs. better and sitting in the press box... easy choice.

Hoffman being in the lineup more regularly is not a positive lol. at this point getting any asset for him is a bonus. The main reason i wouldnt want this trade is habs need to shed contracts to create roster spots for prospects, especially on the wings, i would want to move hoffman for either a late pick or buy him out at this point.

Would you do Iorio, Lapierre, 1st and 2nd for Alex DeBrincat?

Yeah, Hoffman is cheaper and holds a roster spot. Unless Montreal thinks Mantha would return more at the deadline next year, there's not really a reason give up a pick to add salary. One being better than the other is largely irrelevant to a rebuilding team.

Never said keeping hoffman is good, but trading him for an injury prone winger makes absolutely zero sense.

Hoffman will ride out his last year, and be a TDL dump for a 4th with retention.

Habs will suck for another year and stock another top-10 pick.

They tried that, with Monahan this year, and they got a 1st, doubt a 3rd would be of interest.

And as others have eluded too, too many wingers in the Habs under contract that need to be moved in order to let the younger talent rise, Anderson, Gallagher, Armia, Hoffman, Hoffman is the most likely to be moved without having to take anything back in return.

Tell me youndont know how to use analytics more than using raw corsi numbers for players that play on different teams lol

lol that some interesting logic

possible but his $$$ might be too high + his defensive numbers are lackluster

If we are going to give a try to Gurianov, why not give a try to Mantha too. I wouldn't mind this at all to be frank!! Maybe drop 3rd to 4th tho

lol "Tell me youndont know how to use analytics more than using raw corsi numbers". yes "raw Corsi numbers". Mantha has had extremely solid cf% ff% and xgf% in DC and Detroit. Hoffman has been a one dimensional player his entire career. "raw corsi" in this case really dont tell the entire story of both players.... OH WAIT? lol cool try.

How are Keller's defensive numbers?

his defensive numbers are also bad but his cap hit is reasonable and he is scoring at an above ppg average. Ideally you could argue Keller xgf% is low bc his team is bad but imo he like DeBrincat arent great defensively. thats why i would pair him with McM who , when he plays center, is a great 200 ft guy

Keller 5yx7.1m

DeBrincat 8y x 9-10m? guessing thats his asking $$$

I would be shocked if DeBrincat gets more than $8.5 million.

I think if they could move off of Mantha or Kuzy and keep DeBrincat below 9m they would do something similar. I would say that for that specific package WSH would justifiably say that it's significantly more than OTT paid for a younger and cheaper DeBrincat last year. The picks are going to be lets say 12 and 44oa in a much better draft year compared to 7 and 39 that OTT gave up. Lapierre and Iorio are significant adds on to that base package. For DeBrincat (or Keller) I think 12 + Lapierre straight up, Lapierre + Iorio + 44, or 12 + 44 + a guy like Trineyev, Johnson, or Persson is more in line with what WSH would offer.

Yotes aren’t moving Keller, especially for a lowball.

thats a massive haul for him lol.

10-12oa in a deep draft
high end center prospect
high end RSD prospect
another top 50 pick

its Clayton Keller... hes a ppg player on a fair to good contract dont glorify him lol

I think the fact that he's a PPG player on an utterly terrible team does glorify him that will likely be in the bottom 5 in scoring this season, and on a fixed contract that will age well as the cap balloons the next 2-4 years.

Putting him with Ovechkin-Backstrom-Strome-Kuzy would likely get more out of him than playing with Schmatlz or Crowse.

That contract has the possibility of being one of the better contracts in 2-3 years from now if the cap hits 90-ish+ million.

Perhaps my previous comment was misleading. It is not a drastic overpayment, and that would be what it takes to pry Keller out. PPG winger on one of the worst teams in the league, on a bargain bin contract with 5 years remaining starting next year, and more than likely to be the next captain of the Yotes, that offer is a lowball.

You say that Lapierre is a high end C prospect. Just as a comparable, he isn’t better than Ryan Suzuki, and Suzuki isn’t considered to be a “high end C prospect”. I am a fan of Lapierre, but he is not as high end as you believe him to be. Plus, C is the last position Arizona would go for, considering they have Cooley and Geekie in the pipeline, Hayton with the Yotes, and I won’t rule out the possibility that a big name C ends up signing there within the next couple of years. As for what I have seen from Iorio, which hasn’t been that much, he is a bit more of a mystery Wild card to me. Besides, Keller is one of their biggest revenue generators. Unless a team is reaching into their untouchable purse, there is no reason for the Yotes to sell Keller.

yes!! like Timo right? hes absolutely killing it right now? DeBrincat ? he's on a better team. hes doing better right? no that doesn't always happen. hes never put up a ppg before this year? he's never scored 30g before this year. SO AGAIN lets not glorify him. sometimes playing on a terrible team ,like Domi this year ,benefits you.

That move does not make sense for MTL. IDK why there's been such a push to bring in more/swap mediocre wingers when we need to make space for the youth.

Lapierre is a top 40 prospect.. as far as him vs Suzuki? him and Suzuki have very comparable number their first year in the AHL. Suzuki is a 01 birth year and Lapierre is a 02. Suzuki first AHL year he had .411ppg. Lapierre at that same age is a .48ppg. Suzuki also had worse junior stats so i wouldn't say Suzuki is a better prospect... you could argue Lapierre is better .

I'm not saying Hoffman is better. I'm saying MTL isn't giving away a top 70 pick to get rid of him while doubling cap hit. You're dealing with a rebuilding team, so don't ask for a rebuilding block without offering one in return.

First off, Neither of your examples would be acquired with 5 years of contract to acclimate to a team.

Secondly, Ottawa is in shambles, Debrincat never wanted to be there and will likely be gone this summer.

Thirdly, of the trades with term left, Ekholm, Vrana and Granlund, 2 of the 3 are outperforming their pre-trade production.

Trades with term are hockey trades, trades without term have the potential to be rentals.

Jersey made a push, but they're disrupting the chemistry that made them on the more exciting teams to watch. Ottawa, i've already eluded to (and even Chychrun is under-performing).

Keller deserves the respect, regardless of your willingness to underpay.

Oh yeah? You know this to be a fact?