Kubalik could be moved, Raymond not likely unless it were a huge overpay. He was SY’s original guy, is the third youngest to 100 points in franchise history, and is still getting better overall.

If he doesn’t take another step this upcoming season, next summer could flip that opinion.

As for this trade, no shot. Kuba and Razor are two of four players that could score at all. Moving them for one year of Nylander (who would replicate their scoring) would be taking a lateral step this year and a step back next year when Nylander doesn’t re-sign.

EDIT: not to mention that the Wings would have to deal
with Raymond on a division foe lighting them up and keeping them further away from the playoffs.

Nylander and a first is a HUGE overpay. After his struggles last season a low first is his value.

Not available for a rental, no. Term certainly matters significantly.

If him struggling is a 50 point pace, can't wait to see him onam a consistent first line paired with a winger that isn't a middle 6 guy.

Not interested in trading Raymond for a guy who will be a UFA next summer and a late 1st.

Not sure if this was before or after the edit, so just wanted to make sure I didn’t respond if the last paragraph wasn’t read first.

Nylander and BOS 1st is not an overpay for Raymond alone. Raymond has the capability of becoming Nylander, but more likely becomes a 20-30G 30-40A guy at the 7M mark for the next 8 years. That is absolutely perfect for a top 6 player.

Struggles last season? I understand you probably don’t watch many Wing games, but Raymond’s game evolved from offense only to getting better as a 200ft player. Would I have enjoyed a non-sophomore dip in production, absolutely. I am also perfectly happy if Raymond becomes a player that loses point totals to become a better OVERALL player (Stevie Y was a point machine and Bowman almost got rid of him before he became the dominant full game player currently in the HOF).

I watch Wings games. Nylander >> than Raymond. Raymond did not look great this year. Larkin, now there’s a player. Nylander will sign a similar contract and have similar value as Larkin and that’s >>> than Raymond.

Do you really think Raymond should be mentioned in the same sentence as Stevie Y? You lost all credibility there.

Oh I never argued that Razor was better, in fact I actually stated that his ceiling is Nylander (it’s in the last comment I made).

He had a down year in points, but that total is still great news. He had a down year, but still has 100 points in two seasons as a young player. He needs to get bigger, more explosive, stronger on his stick, and better defensively. He also needs to become more like Nylander and be more of a dog that attacks the net and has a shoot first mentality. He has started working on those, and is still developing. At his age, that has value.

The issue with the trade is Nylander won’t likely re-sign. So now 2024-25 Detroit has no Raymond, no Kuba, no Willy… meanwhile, Toronto gets a cheaper (albeit less productive Nylander) for the next X+ years, and a very cheap 20G-40P bottom 6 scorer for their run next season.

LOL. Nylander had similar numbers than Raymond at the same age. You have to factor in that Raymond is 6 years younger. He's not even in his his prime yet.

Tell me you don't know anything about hockey without telling me you don't know anything about hockey

He seems to only be talking with you so; tell him that a late first is preposterous for Raymond and that if he were a GM, he would've lost MacKinnon with his thinking.

Raymond is available for a Draisaitl trade, not for nylander

Draisatil + McDavid* trade, ofc.

For my colleague… since you don’t seem like you enjoy discourse.

Razor is used in the same sentence because context matters. He is the third youngest to 100 points, a guy in front of him was SY. Also SY is the one to draft him first, and is the one making the moves.

I get you’re reaching, but it should be implied that by ME saying I see Raymond’s ceiling as Nylander’s prime… it means that he won’t scratch the surface to SY as a player.

Much obliged.

Comparing Raymond to MacKinnon….

MacKinnon had 38 points in 64 games his sophomore season after putting up 63 in 82.

It's called a sophomore slump. A lot of players have them.
Point still stands that you'd probably call him a bust and wanted to trade him for like a 2nd or something.

Nylander is useless defensively and he is much more likely to hit someone with his purse than throw an actual check.

Raymond still has hope to gain some aggression and defensive play. Hes young and learning. Also doesnt seem afraid to go in the corner after the puck! For that reason I'd prefer to keep Raymond who will be cheaper and has hope of doing something other than ONLY helping offensively. While providing offense as well.

I'm losing my mind at the frequency that I keep having to say this:

If your offer to the Wings includes Raymond or Seider, trade with someone else. Neither of those guys is getting traded. It just isn't happening.