Leafs say no unless they could find a 3rd party broker to flip those assets.

That's their issue, more to say that if the Leafs want roster pieces, they need to find them elsewhere because they won't be coming from Carolina since that seems to be where everyone wants to dump him

Canes can't score so Marner's point totals would take a hit

You really wanna trade the next Cale Makar for Marner?

As a Leaf fan and a "seller", I love it . My opinion 11m X 2 can be spent just as well or better than Marner and the Leafs have hope in the future with the picks acquired.

All the picks and prospects? Aren’t they worth more than some roster players? Just replace them in free agency

*better than makar.

Regardless of value, I'd be very surprised if the Leafs moved Marner for futures while they still have Matthews and Nylander around for another year at least.

I don't think Marner is the right target. Debrincat if he'll come with an extension is better. OR just stiick with the plan. I've been VERY critical of Waddell this year because he didn't get any scoring depth at the TDL. Welp...I was 100% right and he 100% was wrong, BUT with being critical should also come more honesty. Just because he didn't do diddly squat to fix the problems...he wasn't the cause of them either. Patches and Svech would have made a HUGE difference. Get them both back next year. Stay the course. I'm just hoping Dundon LEARNS FOR ONCE...things happen during the year. As a team you need to address those issues. Luck always helps, but you don't bank on luck...you create your own Luck.

There's not enough in this free agent class to warrant it. Marner isn't even an excellent fit for Carolina, so it's not worth moving roster pieces

Uhh... yeah, they went all the way to the conference finals without doing anything after Svechnikov's ACL tore... they didn't need another scorer, they needed Svechnikov not to have a once-in-a-career injury

Pretty silly comment to make. A.) Didn't realize your goal was reaching the conference finals. B.) you're trading for a point producing 2-way winger above AND signing Patches...so not only are YOUR own actions saying I'm right...you're doubling down. You're saying Svech and Patches aren't even enough by themselves. So if they're not enough by themselves how can you possible defend Waddell at the TDL??? Silly C.) Patches was injured VERY early on. Zero reason to believe scoring depth was needed on Day 1, but not needed at the TDL.

What? Stop,

Pacioretty is being re-signed here because that's the rumor. If they bring him back great, if not, he's going to make up for Noesen's unsustainable production this season. Having Svechnikov alone would have made a big difference. They lost every game to Florida by a single goal. As it is, that series could very easily have gone the other way. With Svechnikov, that series is very likely to go the other way.

100% agreed that series was very odd. They looked dominant, but they did get swept. They did scored 6 goals in 4 games. If we say "Well, it's just BOB" we're ignoring a huge part of the problem. Lack of penetration into high danger areas. Aho did a decent job, but CAR really needed more scoring depth that could penetrate.

100% agreed on Patches and the rumor and he'd be a nice add. 100% agreed that Svech coming back is a great thing.

The big difference is that now it's the off season. Let's take a critical look at what went wrong. Patches was out very early on in the season. Why did CAR think they should bring him in? He's a good 2-way 5v5 winger. Ok mystery solved. He's good for the team. If it was a good idea day 1...why did CAR think losing him was irrelevant? Why didn't CAR replace him with a Barbashev or heck even Domi. I'm just tired of EVEYRONE giving Waddell a pass on clearly obvious mistakes. Pool Party isn't a driver of play.

Except this is a case of just "Bob was hot" they didn't have this scoring issue against Sorokin. Sorokin is better than Bob.

The reason they didn't commit to Domi or Barbashev is because they were pushing for Meier. They didn't want to move Jarvis to make it happen. That's absolutely understandable from Don considering what Meier did in the playoffs. Waddell has not done anything wrong. Waddell is very clear about building the team up in the off-season and then not making major facelifts at the deadline. It allows the organization to have a constant flow of prospects into the team. It's why he makes moves like Burns, and Pacioretty, in the summer and his only real major deadline moves were Skjei and Trocheck. That's not a mistake from Don, it's good asset management

From all the rumors I've heard, Jarvis was never the center piece. It was Nikishin which he should 100% should have been available. The part Waddell might get a pass with is that Dundon is also sold on this idea that he can win every single year...which isn't reality. No team can win every year. Not possible. So, maybe Dundon deserves more blame...OK, I'm open to that.

Also, I don't have an issue with his offseason moves. Those were good moves. I have an issue that stuff happens in the season and he just ignores it. Out golfing somewhere and can't be bothered. Pool Party isn't addressing needs. I actually didn't mind the Ghost move as a depth ancillary piece like other teams makes, but that wasn't what was needed. Adding Ghost ignores the issues CAR was facing. Patches was out and Waddell/Dundon did nothing. You can't even argue with that. He did nothing. It was also the reason got swept. If we can't admit to hard facts...lack of offesnive penetration and scoring depth...this team won't go anywhere.

I hope he CONTINUES to make more good offseason moves, but his job isn't over once the season starts. I can at least admit things Waddell's done that are good. CAR needs to at least admit to things he needs to improve on. No one is perfect and LITERALLY EVERYONE CAR FAN ON HERE, thinks he is. He's god awful at the TDL and it's proven to be factual.

Friedman was clear they wanted a young roster piece. LeBrun reported they wanted Necas to which Waddell laughed. Seravalli speculated it was Jarvis. Nikishin was off the table, which is 100% correct. Dude has the upside to walk into the league in 3 years and win the Norris. He really does look like something special.

Puljujarvi was a long term target to replace Jesper Fast ahead of losing him for nothing. They got him for nothing, it's a good move. You're trying to argue that the fact he couldn't pull off a major deadline move is a bad thing, he made excellent moves when they were available. You cannot even argue with that. The scoring was not an issue, look at the series against Sorokin. They were scoring easily enough. They were exploding offensively against New Jersey. They ran into a hot Bob. It's not Waddell's fault that the goalie that stonewalled one of the best offensive cores in the league in Toronto was still red hot.

Waddell has never made a bad deadline move. Skjei was a great addition. Trocheck was a great addition. Gost was not a great fit, Puljujarvi is a good long term add, they got Domi for a candy bar, you're trying to complain that the fact he doesn't want to mortgage the future of the franchise for an addition at the deadline that is more than likely going to end up with an early trip to the golf course anyway... it's ridiculous. All you're saying here is that you don't like the Canes stance on rentals. It's why Waddell only tinkers at the deadline. He doesn't make big time moves. It's brought success to the organization and prolonged success.

A.) Nikishin is extremely unproven. Not saying he's a bust. VERY big difference. He could do what your saying, but the odds are even better that he's a 2nd pair Dman too. going from 4 points to 44 isn't as impressive as you're making it out to be when you join SKA St. Petersberg. The team is amazing...doesn't mean he is just yet. Morrow is better imo.

B.) He made exellent moves "when they were available". What in the world BS is that? Meier was available. He was traded. Clearly available. the NYR had a million issues. They did too much and never gelled. Sorokin had a .924 SV%! The NYR team wasn't very good.

C.) Pool party needs to leave ASAP. He's awful and that was a terrible trade. He was free becaues he's awful. Do you think EDM (also going for a cup) traded him because he's amazing? No, he stinks...they knew it. They found a sucker to dump cap space to.

D.) You're 100% correct on the last part. FLA doesn't have a 1st until 2026. Vegas has been mortgaging their future for years now. Dean, Krebs, 1st itself. (DAL still has a slim shot). They're about to face each other for the cup. Both teams mortgaging their future to win the cup and one of them will. Tampa! No 1sts until 2026...only 2 cups to show for it. CHI...Terrible team right now that mortgaged their future years ago...only 3 cups to show for it. Waddell seems to think he can win a cup without addressing the TDL and it's EXTREMELY hard to watch him just fail OVER AND OVER beause no one wants to admit the obvious.

Nikishin was the dude that was traded for 9 different players and 50 million rubels. Even KHL teams see his value. His point production doesn't show the whole story. He's a BEAST defensively and he lays hits like Kronwall.

Meier was someone he went after. Jarvis was not on the table. So he was sent for Mukhmadullin, Zetterlund, and a package better than the Canes could offer.

Sorokin is not on the Rangers

Puljujarvi was not a terrible deal... what? They cleared cap space and moved out one of the stronger defensive players in the league. He's not worth 3 million, but he's certainly not a bad player. That's just a braindead take.

Yet, Carolina has its 1st this year, next year and the year after, sustains picks in each round for the next 3 years. As long as the team has this core, they have a shot. Carolina's draft resume is strong enough to justify keeping the picks. They'll get players like Alexander Pashin picked in the 7th round who have genuine NHL upside. Or someone like Ronan Seeley, or Massimo Rizzo. They're smart enough on the floor to find NHL impacts. They do everything the same way, bulk depth. It works better that trading these picks for someone like Meier who had no affect in the playoffs

You're right...sorry blanked on Sorokin vs Shesty. Got them mixed up.

We'll see on Pool Party. Glad you're happy with his 2 points of production and 11:22 ATOI in the playoffs. Talk about Braindead. I'd like to win. You're just pumping Waddell from some unkown reason. TERRIBLE trade.

100% agreed CAR has a good draft resume. 100% agreed on things I know we'll agree on, but haven't even mentioned. Weaponizing cap. Good long term deals with some, but minimal risk. Turbo, KK, Svech. I can admit good moves. Only one of us here can admit both good and bad things. You (and most CAR fans) are too blind to see Waddell isn't perfect. He's made PLENTY OF BAD AND NON MOVES. He's god awful at the TDL. Jake Bean was the previous Nikishin...2x AHL Dman of the year. Norris blah blah blah. WAY too good blah blah blah. Can never trade a piece like that blah blah blah. Oh, wait...he sucks. Left unprotected. The right move, but could have actually used him for something good vs losing him for nothing.

Name 5 things Waddell has done bad. EVERY SINGLE GM in the game has at least 5 things they've done bad. We'll see how bias you are.

Puljujarvi was also one of the best in terms of xG differential... his production wasn't there, but he also didn't play enough to get into the swing of things. Calling it a terrible trade is braindead. That's also not a Waddell move. Puljujarvi's analytics are WAY too good. That stinks of Eric Tulsky.

They pulled the plug on Bean and got a 2nd for him that became Heimosalmi. Bean has struggled since. Obviously, the ACL injury this year is a freak situation, but he's never been quite what he was billed to be. There was no room. He's an offensive LD. Carolina's system enabled offensive RD, it's why Morrow is so highly anticipated. Slavin covers so many warts. Nikishin doesn't have those, he's stronger defensively than offensively.

I genuinely don't think there are 5 things... you're trying to argue his inactivity is a bad thing, but he's also not ripping the team apart. You're trying to overreact to the absence of moves.

Signing Gardiner wasn't great. Probably could have returned more for Faulk and Nedeljkovic. Otherwise, what are you going to complain about? The Kotkaniemi offer sheet? That's looking really smart right now/ Maybe the Vatanen trade? But that didn't do anything. Almost every move he's made has been a home run

Complacency (inaction) is a terrible thing. I understand a "contrarian point of view" and sometimes it's beneficial. But sometimes it's just obvious. Waddell's complacency is a huge issue during the season. We've already discussed this and we're going to disagree...ok fine. I just don't understand how much evidence across the entire NHL needs to be presented until someone in the CAR organization realizes...Hey, we haven't done Jack in nearly two decades. Our cup window has been open for a few years now and just look at TOR to see how fast something can open/close. We've NEVER tried a REAL TDL move. Let's at least try something new. What we've done so far hasn't worked. Our goal is not reaching the conference finals. MAYBE we need to at least attempt something different.

***There's a ton of things to complain about and those things shouldn't take away from being able to admit positive as well. We can walk and chew gum at the same time ***

*Thinking Reimer/Mrazek could be a tandem...WOAH! Rookie GM mistakes!
*He was willing to take the risk on Deangelo's character issues...Deangelo plays really well, but he gets replaced by a worse player in Ghost...that's ALSO a rental? I thought Waddell didn't do rentals? But he will in order to make his PP worse? Why take the risk of AD in the 1st place? Makes ZERO sense, UNLESS it's an admission he F'd up. Then I get why he got Ghost.
*Obviously coveting Jake Bean was a huge mistake. CAR is good at drafting, but they've got a Toronto Maple Leaf mentality that 100% of their prospects are Norris candidates.
*Well see on Pool Party. You love it. I hate it. We will find out who's right between you and me. So far, it's a waste of 11ATOI. He's done Jack so far.
*Lack of TDL moves is his single biggest mistake. Even if they aren't rentals...just the lack of addressing a team's needs. It's like going into a playoff series and telling Brind'Amour...don't change your lines. Even if you're down 3-0...keep everything the same. Don't make any adjustments.

Like what? Carolina have been the most consistent team in the NHL over the last 5 years. They're doing something right, like it or not. Their unwillingness to move roster pieces breeds consistency. Consistency brings improvement.

Mrazek was fine as a Hurricane. They got Reimer in exchange for getting out of the Darling contract Francis signed. That was a REALLY good move.
DeAngelo was a free agent signing that they turned into a 2nd, 3rd, and 4th. His character issues were overblown. He asked Georgiev to make a save (frankly, rightfully so) and Georgiev punched him, it's why he was thrown out according to the Athletic.

Ghost is a rental. They gave up a 3rd 3 years from now for him. He Domi and Vatanen are the only rentals Waddell has ever gotten. And Ghost didn't replace DeAngelo, Burns did.
Bean was a great prospect, and has been a fine NHL player. They left him in the AHL for too long and that was due to the abundance of depth they had on the backend. They got Heimosalmi for him, and they're looking good movinf forward food move.
Puljujarvi plays 11 minutes a night, and is a low event forward. If nothing else, that's 11 minutes of rest for the big boys. Not to mention, he's generated a fair bit in this postseason. That fourth line was big, especially in the Islanders series.
You cannot call a lack of something a mistake. He addressed the teams need with Pacioretty. Pacioretty then got hurt but Necas broke out so the need wasn't so drastic. It was only a real need again after the Svechnikov injury,which he could not have predicted. That's not his fault.
Rod was right to keep things the same, we've already agreed that all 4 games could very easily have gone to the Canes. You're contradicting yourself saying that changed needed to be made in a 50/50 series

Boggles my mind you still think Mrazek was good. He's been Awful for a VERY long time.

Then you explain to me what EACH of the past 5 seasons the offensive CONSISTENTLY dissapears. Every Single Year. Same exact thing. They hit a snag in the playoffs and can't overcome scoring issues.

And was good in Carolina...

This year they ran into a goalie that had shut down forward cores that were better than Carolinas because they were healthy. Stop it. Look at the last 5 years and the goalies that have elminated them
Rask
Rask
Vasilevskiy
Shesterkin
Bobrovsky

They were all RED hot. In three of these seasons, the goalie that defeated them was in the finals. This year especially they get a pass for the injury issues. I didn't expect them to beat the devils without Svech