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Toronto Maple Leafs signed Auston Matthews (4 Years / $13,250,000 AAV)

Was this a good signing?
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Aug. 25, 2023 at 5:29 p.m.
#201
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Quoting: Hammerwise
However, sometimes the BEST player or the BEST player in any trade is rarely the right one or best one for the team. Prior to last season, when he was on the block, too many leaf fans would have never thought that a matthews for tkachuk deal was fair, however in retrospect with tkachuk's production, overall play and difference in cap hit, probably would have been.


I think Matthews still deserves a higher salary than Tkachuk, partly because centers are generally worth more than wingers, but I agree that Tkachuk at $9.5M looks like better value for the cap hit now than Matthews at $13.25M. However, Tkachuk is not an option now. We don’t even know if he was an option last year before he was traded to Florida. Would he have signed long-term for $9.5M in Toronto?

Quoting: Hammerwise
Too often quality players, quality depth but mid-paid (1.5-5mil) Leaf players have been dealt or left to UFA because the team has been cap strapped, even players of type of players they badly needed, only to maintain this team structure of paying so much at the top that there isnl;t anything for the middle. They've constantly traded futures to for one year fixes on perennial weaknesses (tons of picks for quality depth, grit guys like Foligno, Nash, O'Reilly, Accairi), constantly bargain basement shopped on vets, and all the while not developed youth (Knies is the first promising impact rookie in 5 seasons). Young guys like Sandin, Liljegren are now in their 6th pro season, and liljegren hasn;t been given the team faith to be a top 4 guy and was a health scratch in the playoffs.


I think part of why Dubas adopted that strategy was that he didn’t think Matthews would stay once his current contract ran out. He was probably assuming a win window ending in 2024.

Quoting: Hammerwise
So when you know the team is cap strapped and needs quality forward depth, you sign old man, one dimensional 4th line, 6-8 mins a game Reaves for 3 years for 1.3mil forcing a quality 3rd line 13-16 min a night Jarnkrot out?


I can’t see them taking Jarnkrok out of the lineup in favour of Reaves. Jarnkrok was one of their most valuable players per dollar of cap hit last season. I think Reaves will play about as much as Simmonds did.

Quoting: Hammerwise
Do I think TOR should have dealt Matthews? Of course not. But I'd be crazy to think that if FLA didn;t offer tkachuk and forsling for him, that I wouldn;t snap it up, or that if CGY offered dube and hanifan for nylander I wouldn;t bit their hand off? I think its good to bear in mind that TOR assets get overexaggerated and whats best for the team isn;t always the BEST player.


Matthews for Tkachuk and Forsling may sound good in theory, but you can’t just go out and trade for any player you want. To some extent, you have to play the hand you’re dealt. I could see the Calgary trade being a possibility if Calgary believes they can sign Nylander but not Hanifin, but I don’t know those Calgary players well enough to know if I’d do it.

Whether it’s that trade or some other move, I get your point about the best players in absolute terms not necessarily being the best players for the team. The Leafs have done well to collect some excellent high-scoring forwards, but perhaps they have too many eggs in that basket, and they could benefit from more balance. But these are the players they have. Opportunities to change the makeup of your core while getting good value for what you’re giving up, like Florida did last year, are few and far between. Nylander’s extension might force them to look for such an opportunity, whether they think they need it or not. He’s a great player, and I figure he’s worth $9.2-9.5M AAV on a 6-year extension (less AAV if he wants more term), but that might not be the best use of cap hit for the Leafs at this point. It might be fine for some other team though.
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Aug. 25, 2023 at 5:32 p.m.
#202
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Quoting: BCAPP
Holl's issue in Toronto has always been that he is a 3rd pairing defenseman playing second pairing. He is fine. Just not good.


Or maybe bc he was on the ice for 70% of the Leafs goals against in the playoffs
Aug. 25, 2023 at 5:49 p.m.
#203
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The more time I think about this deal the more my opinion on this solidifies:

Matthews is the best player in franchise history, so signing him is a good thing... Especially for another half decade. Matthews is also the most complete player in the NHL, from his defensive game, to being the most dangerous threat on the ice to score in 5v5 and on the PP... So signing him is a good thing

The term: I like it... I know guys like Sid might not, but it covers his primer years and age 31 Matthews isn't getting age 26 Matthews money unless Matthews goes off for 5 straight years... Which could happen but might not. Does it suck he didn't sign for 8... Yes, but I also believe it can work out either way

The AAV: That's what happens when you have a good player on your team... Especially your franchise guy who's at worst a top 5 guy and at best rivals McDavid (He won the Hart trophy over him)

The scenario: It's great signing Matthews... But, that doesn't mean Marner and Nylander won't look at that and want team friendly deals... But Vegas proved that you can have nearly 2 10 mill + players and win and so did Tampa

The dream scenario: My perfect view of this is if the Leafs trade Nylander this year for value, win a cup and trade Marner and go back to back while having a younger core with Matthews and JT there to take the heat and they go on to win cups to follow

The nightmare scenario: Not only do the Leafs sign Nylander AND Marner to monster contracts, the Leafs get 1rst rounded/miss the playoffs for the next 5 years and Matthews leaves while underperforming in the playoffs each year to waste his prime

I think it will be somewhere in the middle and I do think the best interest for the Leafs is to deal Nylander and Marner and I think Matthews will continue to do better and better as he develops his physical presence and his defensive game more and more...

Hope this becomes a good contract but it can go south quick
Aug. 25, 2023 at 6:39 p.m.
#204
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Quoting: Leafsfan98
I think it will be somewhere in the middle and I do think the best interest for the Leafs is to deal Nylander and Marner and I think Matthews will continue to do better and better as he develops his physical presence and his defensive game more and more...


I agree with you on Nylander, provided they can replace him with somebody who fills a role that they need more than another high-scoring forward, but I think they should keep Marner. He's one of the best set-up men in the league, so Matthews (or Tavares, or whoever else Marner plays with) will score more goals with Marner around. Of course, it depends on how much he wants for his next contract. He's at almost $11M AAV now, and considering what other top wingers are signing for nowadays, I don't think he has a strong case for a significant raise (unlike Nylander who is only at $7M AAV and is clearly underpaid based on what he's done the last two seasons). The good news for Marner is that his contract runs out the same time as Tavares's.
Aug. 25, 2023 at 6:54 p.m.
#205
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Quoting: jr400
I agree with you on Nylander, provided they can replace him with somebody who fills a role that they need more than another high-scoring forward, but I think they should keep Marner. He's one of the best set-up men in the league, so Matthews (or Tavares, or whoever else Marner plays with) will score more goals with Marner around. Of course, it depends on how much he wants for his next contract. He's at almost $11M AAV now, and considering what other top wingers are signing for nowadays, I don't think he has a strong case for a significant raise (unlike Nylander who is only at $7M AAV and is clearly underpaid based on what he's done the last two seasons). The good news for Marner is that his contract runs out the same time as Tavares's.


Yeah, But I'd rather asset manage with both than overpay on 1... And considering the cap flexibility there would be if Marner and Nylander left via trade (bc like you said, JT's contract will expire). But that's just my opinion
Aug. 25, 2023 at 8:46 p.m.
#206
Hakuna Matata
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Quoting: BCAPP
Holl's issue in Toronto has always been that he is a 3rd pairing defenseman playing second pairing. He is fine. Just not good.


Nah he just sucked

His playoffs last season was the nail on the coffin for him

He was on the ice for 74% of our goals against TBL and this was on the third pair

Still cant believe he made 3.4m
Aug. 25, 2023 at 8:48 p.m.
#207
wheelchair briere
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Edited Aug. 25, 2023 at 8:56 p.m.. Reason: Had to fix the quote
Quoting: jr400
I think Matthews still deserves a higher salary than Tkachuk, partly because centers are generally worth more than wingers, but I agree that Tkachuk at $9.5M looks like better value for the cap hit now than Matthews at $13.25M. However, Tkachuk is not an option now. We don’t even know if he was an option last year before he was traded to Florida. Would he have signed long-term for $9.5M in Toronto?


When he was available, why would Matthew Tkachuk leave Calgary for Toronto?

His intention after leaving Calgary, was to be traded to, and sign with an American team.


Either way, I'm sure Calgary fans, and hockey fans, were at least happy that he told management that he didn't intend to re-sign with Calgary, unlike Johnny Gaudreau, so they could at least get a return for him. I can understand why NY Islanders fans could have a hate on, and a grudge for John Tavares.

It's funny to see people consider Nylander in the same category as Brady or Matthew Tkachuk, and consider paying him the same $ as either brother or even more. Everyone would rather have either Tkachuk over any Nylander.
Aug. 25, 2023 at 9:11 p.m.
#208
wheelchair briere
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Quoting: ARMCHAIRGMOFTHEYEAR
would people rather have 2 Brandon Hagels or 1 Auston Matthews?


What a comment this is.

Slow day?

What a sad attempt at humor.

Try watching a Tampa Bay Lightning game before you hate on Brandon Hagel.
Aug. 25, 2023 at 9:46 p.m.
#209
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Quoting: Wilson_W_Wilson_Jr

It's funny to see people consider Nylander in the same category as Brady or Matthew Tkachuk, and consider paying him the same $ as either brother or even more. Everyone would rather have either Tkachuk over any Nylander.


Matthew Tkachuk is underpaid based on what he's done the last two years. Brady may be too. My valuation of Nylander was based primarily on comparing him with Timo Meier, whom I think is as close a comparable as you're going to find.
Aug. 26, 2023 at 8:38 a.m.
#210
Respect Mike Grier
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Quoting: Wilson_W_Wilson_Jr
What a comment this is.

Slow day?

What a sad attempt at humor.

Try watching a Tampa Bay Lightning game before you hate on Brandon Hagel.


Guess you would take two Brandon Hagels?

My point was stars bring much more on ice value than they can recieve.

and I don't think you can say the Brandon Hagel was a good contract and then say Matthews is a bad one, when Matthews is more than twice the player of Brandon, not a shot at Hagel it's just the truth.
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Aug. 28, 2023 at 8:12 p.m.
#211
MOVE THE COYOTES
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A tad rich for a guy who only scored 40 goals last year lol.
Aug. 30, 2023 at 8:34 p.m.
#212
S M O K O
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Quoting: Random2152
Still thinking the leafs have D issues in 2023 is a massive L



Players to sign for over 12% with less than 7Y: Datsyuk, Thornton x2, Gaborik x2, Malkin, Heatley, Iginla, Drury, Crosby, Redden, Boyle, Lundqvist, B. Richards, Phaneuf, Luongo, Kovalchuk, Hossa x2, Lecavalier, Niedermayer, Pronger, Khabibulin, Jovanovski, Havlat, Timonen, Giguere, Smyth, Vokoun, B. McCabe, O. Jokinen, Brodeur, St. Louis, R. Nash, Gonchar, and a bunch of others at 11%


Notice how all of these players are retired....
Aug. 30, 2023 at 8:44 p.m.
#213
Just Keep Swimming
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Quoting: VictoriaRoyalsHomer
Notice how all of these players are retired....


Yes. The salary cap has done a good job supressing wages (and nothing else).
You wanted examples and you got them.

Also a bunch of those guys only just retired. Lets not pretend that this is from the pre cap days or something stupid. Many in just the last 10 years (since the most recent lockout)
Aug. 30, 2023 at 10:17 p.m.
#214
LongtimeLeafsufferer
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Quoting: HockeyManiac95
Wth? Y'all are already in cap hell and this happens?

And only 4 years?


I'm not in cap hell. The Leafs have a cap issue this season, but next season, when Matthews new contract starts. Lots of contracts expiring, as a Leaf fan, hoping they spend the $$$ wisely. Four years? Gee he'll be a Leaf for 12 years, what's so bad about that.
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Aug. 31, 2023 at 10:17 a.m.
#215
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Quoting: palhal
I'm not in cap hell. The Leafs have a cap issue this season, but next season, when Matthews new contract starts. Lots of contracts expiring, as a Leaf fan, hoping they spend the $$$ wisely. Four years? Gee he'll be a Leaf for 12 years, what's so bad about that.


Yeh mb. When I made that comment I didn't realize that the contract was for next year
Oct. 11, 2023 at 2:25 p.m.
#216
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Quoting: HockeyManiac95
Yeh mb. When I made that comment I didn't realize that the contract was for next year


Could you imagine a team over the cap by 2 mill+ signs a guy to a 13 mill contract that same season tears of joy
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Oct. 11, 2023 at 4:40 p.m.
#217
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Quoting: Leafsfan98
Could you imagine a team over the cap by 2 mill+ signs a guy to a 13 mill contract that same season tears of joy


Ikr?
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Oct. 11, 2023 at 4:46 p.m.
#218
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Quoting: HockeyManiac95
Ikr?


Just casually, the order of every teams cap space is like:

2 mill
3 mill
-2 mill
1 mill
90 K
6.767 mill
9 mill
Wham! -15 mill
2 mill
3 mill
500K


lul
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Oct. 11, 2023 at 6:05 p.m.
#219
LongtimeLeafsufferer
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Quoting: HockeyManiac95
Wth? Y'all are already in cap hell and this happens?

And only 4 years?


Sorry you don't understand the cap. Leafs are in a good situation next season with the cap when Matthews new cap kicks in. Only four years? Matthews will be a Leaf for a total of 12 years. Gee the Montreal star forwards Suzuki and Caulfied will be under Montreal control for a total of 10 years before being UFAs.
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Oct. 12, 2023 at 8:42 a.m.
#220
wheelchair briere
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The #1 comment on this thread, the contract itself, someone 'liked' it.

What a LOSER.
Oct. 12, 2023 at 9:28 a.m.
#221
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Quoting: palhal
Sorry you don't understand the cap. Leafs are in a good situation next season with the cap when Matthews new cap kicks in. Only four years? Matthews will be a Leaf for a total of 12 years. Gee the Montreal star forwards Suzuki and Caulfied will be under Montreal control for a total of 10 years before being UFAs.


As I stated earlier, I hadn't realized that this took affect next year when I commented lol
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Oct. 12, 2023 at 9:37 a.m.
#222
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Quoting: HockeyManiac95
As I stated earlier, I hadn't realized that this took affect next year when I commented lol


I don't think he saw it
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Oct. 12, 2023 at 12:22 p.m.
#223
Respect Mike Grier
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Quoting: Wilson_W_Wilson_Jr
The #1 comment on this thread, the contract itself, someone 'liked' it.

What a LOSER.


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Oct. 12, 2023 at 12:23 p.m.
#224
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Very excited to see the people hop back on the Matthews wagon after dragging him down all summer, because he was only 10 points over PPG instead of 20 last year while playing hurt.

Still the 2nd best center in the NHL
Nov. 19, 2023 at 5:31 p.m.
#225
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Quoting: Rolfadinho
I don’t mind the term at all, but god that is a lot of money for a guy that went ghost in the playoffs (especially against the Panthers).


But TBF, that FLO - TOR series was whack to begin with... JT, Marner, Matthews, Barkov and Tkachuk all combined for 2 goals the entire series...
 
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